Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.  (Read 3349 times)

Matthew Mayner

  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 3870
  • (Moose42)
    • matthewmayner.wordpress.com

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2011, 10:48:34 AM »
Just because Regan started the "lifeline" deal doesn't make it alright.

Remember that the most dangerous words in English are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Obviously Ronald forgot that when he signed the "life-line."
IdahoCome check out my blog for more SCI-FI and Fantasy stories. I promise you lots of explosions!

matthewmayner.wordpress.com


Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

sqlbullet

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 660

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2011, 11:26:21 AM »
I am certain that it was the only item in the bill Reagan signed as well.

Reagan was a politician, and I am not going to say he was a saint.  But he was not the demon that he is painted as either.  Despite huge deficits, he was a fiscal conservative.  Lets not forget that it is the House that originates ALL spending appropriations.  Not the President.

Reagan ran on the following priorities: #1 Strong Military and win/end the cold war.  #2 Balance the budget. Congress made him choose between these priorities. They put lots of pork into any bill that he needed to meet objective #1, and refused to cut any spending but military spending in pursuit of objective #2.

So, I am sure Reagan signed the bill that created Lifeline. I am also sure it was a minor line item in a pork laden bill that he needed for a more important priority.
Utah

akodo

  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2011, 10:32:41 PM »

As an example of this: go out and try applying for a job sometime, even a very basic one (like Wal-Mart or fast food), and don't list anything on the application when it asks for a phone number or email address.  Most likely, you won't get the job.  Why?  Because the ability to be contacted easily has become fundamental to our society.  No one wants an employee that they have to contact by the postal service.

There are some who, lacking money, would disconnect themselves in order to pay bills like water, food, and rent, and in the process make it extremely difficult for themselves to obtain gainful employment that returns them to productive status.  The goal of programs likes this is to help them maintain personal marketability and vocational competitiveness by lifting the burden until they can earn enough to pick up the expense themselves again.

That's what this program is about.  It's not that talking on the phone is a "right" (their spokesman is an idiot), but rather that it's cheaper to help people in ways like this then to allow them to fall behind the social and technological curve to the point that they (and their family) are unable to interact in a normal manner.

I think the idea has a lot of merit.  

Under that logic the .gov should be buying these people 'business attire' so they can wear it to their job interview...even if they aren't looking for a job.

This program, like most entitlement programs uses a 'hook' of an unlikely but 'heartwarming' scenario that affects a tiny number of the recipients as a way to justify the gain by all who will NOT use it in a manner consistent with the hook scenario.

How many minutes of the 250 to each person is spent answering calls about a job opportunity?  I'd be only 10% of those receiving phones are seriously applying for jobs and of those only a few minutes of the 250 are involved in jobsearch related calls.

How many of those people actually have ZERO friends and family who have phones that could be used as a contact point?

Further, we already have a lot of government programs in place dealing with helping people finding jobs.  I think part of the welfare system or unemployment system one of the contingencies for getting your check is to be actively looking for work.  Those systems or the numerous 'help unemployed people get jobs' programs are going to be able to assist the people who have no access to a phone by giving them a number that can be given to an employer to contact.  This has been standard for years when trying to get people who are homeless or living in shelters to work.

AND if you need email you can get a gmail account and check your mail at the local library.

Feud

  • Teller of bad jokes.
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4861

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2011, 12:11:18 AM »
AND if you need email you can get a gmail account and check your mail at the local library.

So you're fine with using tax dollars to provide subsidized internet access, but not phone calls?  ;)

Gunnguy

  • Husband, Father, US Air Force Veteran, Scouter, Hunter, Geek, Gamer, PITA (Pain in the A$$), and future comedy star.
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4388
  • You did what with what?

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2011, 07:31:05 AM »
So you're fine with using tax dollars to provide subsidized internet access, but not phone calls?  ;)

Libraries are usually locally operated by the county. No feds involved.

Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

Feud

  • Teller of bad jokes.
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4861

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2011, 07:44:09 AM »
Libraries are usually locally operated by the county. No feds involved.

Ok... so you're ok with counties using tax dollars to subsidize internet access, but not federal government to subsidize phone calls?

If I've got that mixed up, I apologize.  I might need some type of Venn diagram or flow chart to figure out who can and who can't subsidize utilities...  :neener

sarge712

  • WTA LEO
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4622
  • Just a teddy bear fulla luv, bub

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2011, 07:47:35 AM »
*Waits for certain people to post how that isn't so...or it's isolated...*  :popcorn :popcorn



You won't hear it from me. GunGuy is right. I see and hear it from them too especially ex's who rat out their former loved ones' scams. Welfare and it's associated scams are an industry.

London scale riots will erupt if these entitlements were taken away. It's a case of hogs at the trough that'll turn on you in a heartbeat.
North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
That is thine oath.


Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

sqlbullet

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 660

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2011, 11:26:55 AM »
I might need some type of Venn diagram or flow chart to figure out who can and who can't subsidize utilities...  :neener


http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec1.

Under Madison's interpretation, and the interpretation of the courts until 1936, this was not a power of the Federal.  Hamilton argued for a broad interpretation of the General Welfare clause, but only after the constitution as ratified.  He clearly feared promoting such a broad interpretation would hinder the ratification process.

Further, even Hamilton's broad interpretation stipulated that while he may have seen such a subsidy within the scope of the General Welfare clause, he held that it should not be applied only to a specific section of the country or group of people.  In other words, he may have favored subsidizing cell phones, but only if the subsidy applied to everyone, and not just the poor.
Utah

Feud

  • Teller of bad jokes.
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4861

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2011, 11:51:01 AM »
So, what you're saying is: you took my joke seriously. ;)

sqlbullet

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 660

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2011, 01:51:29 PM »
Sorry, I barely get facetious nuance in person.  In a forum, I am hopeless.  :-[
Utah

Thernlund

  • WTA Staff
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 13890

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2011, 02:24:55 PM »
Don't feel bad.  Feud is an expert at facetious nuance.

;)


-T.
Arizona  Arm yourself because no one else here will save you.  The odds will betray you, and I will replace you...

Feud

  • Teller of bad jokes.
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4861

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2011, 03:44:31 PM »
Speaking of which, my facetious nuance detector just spiked... :)

Thernlund

  • WTA Staff
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 13890

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2011, 05:19:47 PM »
;D


-T.
Arizona  Arm yourself because no one else here will save you.  The odds will betray you, and I will replace you...

Gunnguy

  • Husband, Father, US Air Force Veteran, Scouter, Hunter, Geek, Gamer, PITA (Pain in the A$$), and future comedy star.
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4388
  • You did what with what?

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2011, 08:04:07 PM »
Ok... so you're ok with counties using tax dollars to subsidize internet access, but not federal government to subsidize phone calls?

If I've got that mixed up, I apologize.  I might need some type of Venn diagram or flow chart to figure out who can and who can't subsidize utilities...  :neener

Uhm...yeah. Cause EVERYONE CAN USE THE LIBRARY!!!! Not jus' da' po' pepl'.


Smartass!

LOL!


Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'


Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

akodo

  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2011, 03:34:55 PM »
So you're fine with using tax dollars to provide subsidized internet access, but not phone calls?  ;)

further EVERYONE can use the library...just like tax dollars could be said to subsidize automobile transport.  (doh just saw the reply just above)

The 'free cellphones for some' is like having a bus with 20 blue seats and 4 red seats.  The red seats are used for free by the poor and everyone in the blue seats has to pony up a few extra dollars to cover that bus ticket.

IF a service needs to be provided, it needs to be provided by the proper segment of government, and that almost always is NOT at the federal level.  Second IF service or subsidy needs to be provided it should come from tax dollars not private industry forced to place an additional fee on SOME of their customers to offset free services they are forced to give to OTHER customers.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 03:49:56 PM by akodo »

Wolffstarr

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 435

  • Offline
Re: Free Cell Phones, the new entitlement.
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2011, 01:33:13 PM »
I still maintain that the big problem with this is that they're using funds designated specifically to building infrastructure in remote areas in order to provide urban services. USF was never supposed to be about end user usage. It was about making the services available in the first place. Nobody in rural areas got "free" phone service; all they did was enable remote areas to pay the same prices as non-remote areas for a given level of service.

To modify akodo's bus analogy, this is more akin to public transit fees being used to buy a bus for a poor person to drive around in, when it's supposed to go towards making sure the guy on the outskirts of town doesn't have to walk 10 miles to get to the nearest bus stop.


Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.