"Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."-R.A.H.

From what I've seen of history, it's inevitably the first sort mentioned in the last bit of that quote who justify their actions as being, "for the greater good", as they grind individuals as grist in their mill.      Some of them have probably actually believed what they were saying,  but as the old saw goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".   

"Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."-R.A.H.

From what I've seen of history, it's inevitably the first sort mentioned in the last bit of that quote who justify their actions as being, "for the greater good", as they grind individuals as grist in their mill.      Some of them have probably actually believed what they were saying,  but as the old saw goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".   

The more you post Low key, the more I realise how similar our political views are  .

From what I've seen of history, it's inevitably the first sort mentioned in the last bit of that quote who justify their actions as being, "for the greater good", as they grind individuals as grist in their mill.      Some of them have probably actually believed what they were saying,  but as the old saw goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".

Again, I'm gonna disagree, with both you and Heinlein. Humans, in my experience and opinion, divide themselves into three categories: those who want to be controlled, those who want to control of their own lives and leave everyone (or almost everyone) else alone, and those who want to control everyone around them. It's the third category that justify their actions as being for the greater good as they, as you put it, "grind individuals as grist in their mill."

I understand what you're saying, but the persons who want to be controlled and the persons who want to control everyone around them are both subsets of the group comprised of "those who want people to be controlled".  They differ only in whom they want controlled, some themselves and some anyone other than themselves.   

And when that philosophic point of view is backed up by the force of government individuals get crushed as those steering that polity pursue whatever they have deemed to be the "needs of the many".    It's a philosophy that would justify stripping Bill Gates of most of his assets in order to take care of the needs of the world's poor.     
It's a sentiment suited to ants and bees, not humans.         

I'll reply in more detail later,  but you're confusing communist totalitarianism with democratic socialism or liberal capitalism... these are not equals. There is a balance to be struck.

BTW, given Bill Gates's campaign with Warren Buffett to raise taxes on the 1%, he may not have been the best rich guy for you to set forward as an example...

I'll reply in more detail later,  but you're confusing communist totalitarianism with democratic socialism or liberal capitalism... these are not equals. There is a balance to be struck.

I'm kind of interested in this  , seeing as I fall right in the classically liberal/anarcho-capitalist area on the political spectrum.

I don't know much about liberal capitalism.

  They are the same.   Just on different levels of enforcement.   And like a sales tax, the percentage always goes up incrementally, even if only a tiny fraction at a time.

  There's a reason the United States was a Republic, rather than a democracy.    It was specifically so the "greater good" would not be imposed on a minority.

A lot of political historians, much wiser than myself, have stated that the secod we introduced the seventeenth amendment, we took the republic out of our democratic republic.

Some say that we are merely a democracy now, that most of our current ills stem from this amendment, and that until we repeal it... It's a downhill spiral from here.

Had to look to make sure my memory of which one was the seventeenth (I remembered correctly ).  Yep.  Letting the senators represent the people rather than the states was a big change.

 

Interesting that a bunch of left wing lunatics in Phoenix has precipitated this discussion.      This appears to be the same group that gathers en masse out in the desert outside of the metro area and proceeds to shoot up the surrounding landscape, leave trash everywhere and basically ignore most of the rules of gun safety while claiming to be "training" for something.   

http://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,12723.0.html

I suggest you watch the video clips, check out the links and read the general drift of the thread and replies before making up your mind. 

Enjoy.

First off, damn I was late by a couple of months in posting this  . Typically I try to keep on the ball when it comes to politics.

Some interesting things I noted:

1. will red dawn be fought by Americans against Americans?

2. There was talk about anarchists. These kids must not know what anarchy is, cos anarchists cling very tightly to their NAP. They are about as harmless as libertarians, but even worse so, because the anarchists can never be fluffed to unite on any damn issue. Hell, that's why it is the only political ideology to never have a standing army.

3. There were a lot of women shown in this movement. What is it that appeals to young women?

4. These seem like real deal commies. If I didn't before, I certainly consider them a threat to the American way of life now. I suggest that we siege them in and starve them out. We invade their HQ coffee cafe houses and replace all of the ambient hipster folk music bull s___ with only AC/DC, alice in chains, avenged seven fold, and the like. Next we replace all of their microbrewed craft IPA beer with common mass produced stuff from 'big corporations'. To continue the attack and prevent reinforcements we have to cut off their communications. I suggest we have an EMP set off that only affects apple products... They'll never see it coming. Lastly, the final death blow will be to replace all of their food with gluten only products. Biological warfare is low, but freedom is worth that price.

With normal food, common beer, and some actual exposure to the working man's music, they will forego their special snowflake attitudes and go home; their skinny jeans defeated. They will have no choice but to trade in their gender studies degree for going to trade school and telling their party line conservative parents (whom they still inevitably live with), that "mom and dad were right all along" and that a flat tax sounds dandy and Bernie and his $15 minimum wage can go suck eggs.

This new civil war will not be fought with bombs or gun fire, rather gluten and classic rock.

carry on, gentlemen  .

First off, damn I was late by a couple of months in posting this  . Typically I try to keep on the ball when it comes to politics.

Some interesting things I noted:

1. will red dawn be fought by Americans against Americans?

2. There was talk about anarchists. These kids must not know what anarchy is, cos anarchists cling very tightly to their NAP. They are about as harmless as libertarians, but even worse so, because the anarchists can never be fluffed to unite on any damn issue. Hell, that's why it is the only political ideology to never have a standing army.

3. There were a lot of women shown in this movement. What is it that appeals to young women?

4. These seem like real deal commies. If I didn't before, I certainly consider them a threat to the American way of life now. I suggest that we siege them in and starve them out. We invade their HQ coffee cafe houses and replace all of the ambient hipster folk music bull s___ with only AC/DC, alice in chains, avenged seven fold, and the like. Next we replace all of their microbrewed craft IPA beer with common mass produced stuff from 'big corporations'. To continue the attack and prevent reinforcements we have to cut off their communications. I suggest we have an EMP set off that only affects apple products... They'll never see it coming. Lastly, the final death blow will be to replace all of their food with gluten only products. Biological warfare is low, but freedom is worth that price.

With normal food, common beer, and some actual exposure to the working man's music, they will forego their special snowflake attitudes and go home; their skinny jeans defeated. They will have no choice but to trade in their gender studies degree for going to trade school and telling their party line conservative parents (whom they still inevitably live with), that "mom and dad were right all along" and that a flat tax sounds dandy and Bernie and his $15 minimum wage can go suck eggs.

This new civil war will not be fought with bombs or gun fire, rather gluten and classic rock.

carry on, gentlemen  .

First off, damn I was late by a couple of months in posting this  . Typically I try to keep on the ball when it comes to politics.

Some interesting things I noted:

1. will red dawn be fought by Americans against Americans?

2. There was talk about anarchists. These kids must not know what anarchy is, cos anarchists cling very tightly to their NAP. They are about as harmless as libertarians, but even worse so, because the anarchists can never be fluffed to unite on any damn issue. Hell, that's why it is the only political ideology to never have a standing army.

3. There were a lot of women shown in this movement. What is it that appeals to young women?

4. These seem like real deal commies. If I didn't before, I certainly consider them a threat to the American way of life now. I suggest that we siege them in and starve them out. We invade their HQ coffee cafe houses and replace all of the ambient hipster folk music bull s___ with only AC/DC, alice in chains, avenged seven fold, and the like. Next we replace all of their microbrewed craft IPA beer with common mass produced stuff from 'big corporations'. To continue the attack and prevent reinforcements we have to cut off their communications. I suggest we have an EMP set off that only affects apple products... They'll never see it coming. Lastly, the final death blow will be to replace all of their food with gluten only products. Biological warfare is low, but freedom is worth that price.

With normal food, common beer, and some actual exposure to the working man's music, they will forego their special snowflake attitudes and go home; their skinny jeans defeated. They will have no choice but to trade in their gender studies degree for going to trade school and telling their party line conservative parents (whom they still inevitably live with), that "mom and dad were right all along" and that a flat tax sounds dandy and Bernie and his $15 minimum wage can go suck eggs.

This new civil war will not be fought with bombs or gun fire, rather gluten and classic rock.

carry on, gentlemen  .

I admit I like Number 4, seeing as how that's basically using the same tactics they've been using against us. And I'd like to be able to walk into a coffee shop without feeling like an unwelcome stranger in a strange land. But leave the microbrews alone. On the rare occasions when I imbibe, I like Blue Moon (okay, technically not a craft microbrew since they're owned by Coors), and I'd prefer to not be forced to imbibe in stuff that tastes like cow piss.

As for #3, I suspect those are the ones who've bought into the radical Third-Wave Feminist BS about the "War on Women" and how conservatives want to make "The Handmaid's Tale" a reality.

They could stand to look at some WWI recruiting posters as well...





I'll confess that the only "highbrow" coffee shops I've ever been in are Starbucks. The ones in Barnes & Noble stores aren't bad since they have a real varied customer base, but every time I walk into a normal Starbucks, I feel like I've just walked into a very different culture, one where I am not at all welcome. Seriously, people have looked up from their drinks and given me dirty "who the hell are you?" looks. And I don't think I look out of place since my normal attire is a golf shirt, jeans, and a beard (and a neckbeard when I've been too lazy to shave for a few days).

You didn't accidentally walk in open carrying an AK or anything, did you  .

lol, nope, though I might've been concealing my SIG P232 once or twice. I think I got the dirty looks because I immediately outed myself as an "outsider" once I tried to order: wasn't familiar with the menu or the vocabulary (had no idea how to pronounce anything other than 'grande'), so it was pretty obvious I wasn't part of the Starbucks Crowd.

And the funny bit is I'd never seen either of those WWI posters before until earlier this afternoon. I thought there was a classic car show at a nearby trolley museum today, but I got my dates mixed up. The car show is tomorrow. Today, the museum was marking the 100th anniversary of American troops arriving in France to fight in WWI (though the actual anniversary is tomorrow), and among other events, the museum was displaying part of a collection of WWI propaganda, enlistment, and War Bond posters. The collection belongs to one of the museums volunteers (or at least the wife of a volunteer: I don't know if she volunteers herself).