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Author Topic: Summer Shooting.  (Read 2660 times)

MTK20

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Summer Shooting.
« on: May 19, 2017, 07:49:29 PM »
Summer break is here and I think I'd like to buy something.

I want to practice with my concealed carry handgun over break and I would like to know what the brain trust thinks.

Right now I have a Sig with no plinking ammo and about 600-700 rounds of plinking .38 special. Should I buy a case of 9mm or should I buy a Smith and Wesson new model 66 in the 2.75 inch barrel?

Caveats: if no one helps me decide, I'll just end up squandering my money on booze and women  :P. Also, the case of ammo I buy may or may not be cheap steel cased such as Tula, depending upon cost :hide. It's not like I reload or anything.
Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Raptor

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 08:02:43 PM »
    Tough call. My heart says get the Combat Magnum, but my head says get plinking ammo for the SIG. Especially since you can probably buy 3x 1000-round cases of 9mm FMJ for the price of the Smith (maybe 4 depending on the brand and if you can find a good deal).

    So much as it pains me to say this, I'm gonna have to go with the ammo. It's probably smarter to practice with the gun you already own.
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    NukMed

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 08:09:03 PM »
    Quote from: MTK20 link=topic=26481.msg452465#msg452465 date=1495237769
    if no one helps me decide, I'll just end up squandering my money on booze and women  :P. [/quote

    Define "squander."  ;)
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    NukMed

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 08:11:38 PM »
    If it were me, I'd buy the ammo.  There are a lot of good deals out there at the moment. 
    Freedom trumps fear.  Rights trump security.  Free will trumps order.

    Kaso

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 08:34:05 PM »
    Let's look at this logically: You have a P228 and a 686+ - a daily driver and a diesel muscle truck.  You have a bit of diesel, (not that much, really) and no gas for the daily driver. (knowing you, we'll call it a Honda :neener)  So you pose the question whether you should go out and stock up on gas for the Honda, or buy yet another, smaller work truck to share in your already lean stores of diesel.  :hmm

    You can buy several cases of 9mm range ammo for the cost of a new S&W.  Four cases of Tula, if that is your preference, off of SGAmmo, including shipping.  And then on top of that you could snag a few spare P228 mags, and still be under the $700 mark that a new S&W will easily set you back.

    My advice would be to get a case of Tula, (or me personally, I would get the hotter MEN 9mm they sell*) as well as a case of .357 for the 686+, and a mess of hollowpoints for both.  And some mags.  And then still have money left over for wine, women, and song.  ;)

    Guns are like cars, ammo is like fuel.  While I would never sell a gun (a tangible asset) to buy ammo (a consumable), I would also never buy another car if I could not afford gas for the one I drive now.



    *ETA: This is the stuff I like.  They sell smaller quantities as well.
    http://www.sgammo.com/product/surplus/1600-round-ammo-can-9mm-nato-124-grain-fmj-ammo-made-men-germany-men9b-1600ac
    « Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:28:38 PM by Kaso »
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    MTK20

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 09:18:36 PM »
    (knowing you, we'll call it a Honda :neener)

     :rotfl Perfect  :thumbup1.

    *ETA: This is the stuff I like.  They sell smaller quantities as well.
    http://www.sgammo.com/product/surplus/1600-round-ammo-can-9mm-nato-124-grain-fmj-ammo-made-men-germany-men9b-1600ac

    There is no denying that that looks like quality ammo. Thankfully, Grant completely hooked me up with magazines. I know some people like Clint Smith say you should buy 100 magazines at a time, but 6 or 7 will last me for quite a while.

    I'll have to look at what I can get ammo wise. Geco can be had here in cases locally, and that's pretty good ammo. I'll also browse lucky gunner.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Kaso

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 09:34:31 PM »
    Geco is good too. 

    Lucky Gunner...  Just watch the prices.  I used to buy there until I realized that other places had better pricing for the same products.
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    Grant

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #7 on: May 19, 2017, 10:23:09 PM »
       Couple cases of 9mm and a case of .357/.38's.

      Better to be shooting guns than looking at em  ;)

    Since I'm holding off buying much for guns this year (only......a few....) I'm finishing up the odd&end projects and shoring up stuff that I've put off for gun purchases.  $30-$60 things that really finish out guns/projects that have been on hold for awhile.

       
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    MTK20

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 10:50:09 PM »
    Geco is good too. 

    Lucky Gunner...  Just watch the prices.  I used to buy there until I realized that other places had better pricing for the same products.

    Would you say that SG is typically better for ammo? Just asking cos you linked them previously. I have done business with them in the past.

    I asked my LGS about the model 66. They would have to order it in, but their suppliers had 30 of them in stock :drool . After tax and everything it would run me $811.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    mqondo

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 11:30:33 PM »
    Buying new guns is always fun. But if you have a gun with no practice ammo, I would buy ammo. I'm in the same boat. I want to buy a rifle, but I'm low on ammo, so I'm most likely going to buy ammo.
    Utah

    coelacanth

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #10 on: May 20, 2017, 12:06:10 AM »
    Well, if it were me I'd probably squander a little of my stash on liquor and women.  Particularly women with an interest in the shooting sports that would be happy to chip in for some range ammo and targets and help you police the brass afterward.  Bonus points if she reloads.  Major bonus points if she's also good looking enough to make you quit ogling new Smith & Wesson's.   :cool   Please correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't sound like an impossibility considering you're in Texas.    :hmm
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    MTK20

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #11 on: May 20, 2017, 12:18:02 AM »
    Well, if it were me I'd probably squander a little of my stash on liquor and women.  Particularly women with an interest in the shooting sports that would be happy to chip in for some range ammo and targets and help you police the brass afterward.  Bonus points if she reloads.  Major bonus points if she's also good looking enough to make you quit ogling new Smith & Wesson's.   :cool   Please correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't sound like an impossibility considering you're in Texas.    :hmm

    I could probably think of a choice pick or two that I would like to take to the range with me  ;). I still don't know any who reload yet.

    I could always do with more whisky. Not sure what my next pick will be regarding that hobby... I think day drinking is a hobby, isn't it? I mean, I've gotten pretty good at it. Hell, if it's not, I'll consider it one  :neener.

    Getting back to new Smiths, I don't own a K frame yet. Not to mention that firearm has been the historical "good guy" gun for about a century.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    cpaspr

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #12 on: May 20, 2017, 01:18:17 PM »
    I voted ammo, for all the logical reasons stated above.

    Regarding the Model 66, unless the trigger is as good as the old ones, for $811, I'd consider skipping the new one and find an original.  They're out there, and the last ones I saw were around $600-$650.  That trigger is what makes the S&Ws so desirable.  If the trigger on the new ones isn't as, or can't be made as, smooth as the originals, I'd pass.  Here's what Jerry has to say about the S&W triggers.  Not necessarily about smoothness, but speed: 
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    MTK20

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #13 on: May 20, 2017, 01:21:35 PM »
    Called up the LGS. Didn't ask for brand, cos they only seem to stock Geco in bulk, but $219 for brass cased, 1000 rounds.

    Think I might just buy local, last time after adding up shipping and handling, it seemed about even anyways.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    lesptr

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 02:21:57 PM »
    Called up the LGS. Didn't ask for brand, cos they only seem to stock Geco in bulk, but $219 for brass cased, 1000 rounds.

    Think I might just buy local, last time after adding up shipping and handling, it seemed about even anyways.
    You'll save about 5 bucks at sgammo based on the last email I received and get better ammo than geco.

    And for the record, spending money on booze and women is not squandering. A man has to relax.
    Georgia

    Kaso

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #15 on: May 20, 2017, 07:25:21 PM »
    Would you say that SG is typically better for ammo? Just asking cos you linked them previously. I have done business with them in the past.
    I would definitely say their service is better, better pricing, and I trust them.  Lucky Gunner...  Is better at marketing themselves, and that is about it.  I know I was hesitant to switch away from them, simply because they were what I knew, but then one time I used SGA and I never went back.

    And $811?  For that price you can squeeze out a two day pistol course, ammo for the class, and then probably a case of Tula 9mm just to have.  If I was hell bent on spending the cash, that would be the most productive use of it.
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    ZeroTA

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #16 on: May 20, 2017, 11:42:38 PM »
    Ammo and a training class. It's the most productive way to spend that money by far.

    Also consider saving the money or looking into a Roth IRA, but what fun is that. None.


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    MTK20

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #17 on: May 21, 2017, 12:03:05 AM »
    So we have decided 9mm is the way to go.

    I was hoping for more input regarding $219 for a case of 1k Geco brass cased ammo. Before I buy from my LGS.

    The other question. Who gives good training in central Texas? I'm not aware of anyone.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Raptor

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #18 on: May 21, 2017, 12:09:40 AM »
    Geco is seriously good stuff. Made by RUAG in Germany if I remember correctly. I buy it whenever I can find it, usually at gun shows. If it's brass-cased and copper-jacketed, then $219 sounds like a good price. SGAmmo is stocking it for about $210 per case, so with shipping you'd probably come out even.

    Just be aware that Geco also makes bimetal (I think) jacketed rounds that are magnetic. I'd double-check that they're copper-jacketed non-magnetic.
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    mqondo

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #19 on: May 21, 2017, 12:42:50 AM »
    I don't know if you have tried Freedom Munitions. Right now their new 115 new ammo is $190/1000 with $7.50 shipping on any order over $99.

    https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammunition/pistol/9mm/9mm-115-gr-rn-new.html
    Utah

    Kaso

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #20 on: May 21, 2017, 12:43:46 AM »
    I was hoping for more input regarding $219 for a case of 1k Geco brass cased ammo. Before I buy from my LGS.
    Nothing wrong with it.  Raptor says it is made by Ruag, which is technically true - Ruag is a conglomerate that owns Geco, with ammo being produced in Germany, Switzerland and Hungary, as well as maybe others.  I have seen their 9mm offered from all three countries. 

    If you want to support your local dealer, (not a bad idea right now) go ahead and buy with confidence.  Otherwise, here is another Ruag option that will save a few dollars: http://www.sgammo.com/product/sellier-bellot/1000-round-case-9mm-luger-124-grain-fmj-european-government-contract-ammo-mad
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    Kaso

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #21 on: May 21, 2017, 12:51:00 AM »
    I don't know if you have tried Freedom Munitions. Right now their new 115 new ammo is $190/1000 with $7.50 shipping on any order over $99.

    https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammunition/pistol/9mm/9mm-115-gr-rn-new.html
    I don't know about him, but I have.  I used to use them as my primary ammunition supplier, and bought both new and remanufactured loads.  It is made to a price point, and I have found damaged/ deformed rounds before.  If you want cheap ammo to 'stack deep' to sell during the next ban scare... I wouldn't even buy FM for that.  Buy in bulk and you can beat their prices, and have better ammo that would fetch a higher price.

    Mine, I am trying to shoot it off and then I will be done with them.  Everything I buy in new these days is of better quality.
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    Here's to a great four years!

    MTK20

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #22 on: May 21, 2017, 01:51:05 AM »
    I haven't heard of freedom munitions, but I have bought military ballistic industries, which is remanufactured ammo. So far I like it.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Kaso

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #23 on: May 21, 2017, 01:57:56 AM »
    I haven't heard of freedom munitions, but I have bought military ballistic industries, which is remanufactured ammo. So far I like it.
    That is Lucky Gunner's house brand.  I bought it when I used them, years ago.

    Honestly...  A batch of that is the worst ammo I have ever shot.  I posted a few years ago about one of my range trips with the Beretta 92, how with two other types of ammo the Beretta was very accurate, but with MBI reloads I could not even hit the steel plate.
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    Here's to a great four years!

    Grant

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    Re: Summer Shooting.
    « Reply #24 on: May 21, 2017, 08:25:09 AM »
      One thing I will note:   For the only $10-15 per case savings? I won't use reman.     Prices better be down to $30-35 case savings.

        For me, when I order ammo I only do it from two places:

      SGAmmo (SGA) and SportsmansGuide (SG).  Both have the cheapest ammo prices I've seen.

      As far as 9mm ammo, it costs about $10 more per case, but I really prefer American Eagle.  It's been the most consistant bulk ammo, along with consistant higher velocity (1190-1212 with a 4.5-5" barrel) than many bulk 115 grain ammo.

       Ruag would be my second choice, but only of swiss or german manufacture.   I don't know about the Hungarian.   I do know the GECO .223 ammunition is some of the most accurate "bulk" ammunition I've ever shot.    Somewhat thinking of bulk-purchasing a couple thousand rounds and pick one of my plain-Jane AR's as a DMR with it. 
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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