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Author Topic: SilencerCo Layoffs  (Read 4251 times)

Roper1911

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Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2017, 07:49:12 AM »
A popular way to make suppressors is freezing plugs and a centering jig. Admittedly that makes somewhat inefficient square baffles, you can also get domers too though.

Otherwise it's not a hard thing to do, just time consuming.
I know a guy with a 5 axis CNC mill, so I could theoretically get monocore baffles cut from 600 series inconel...
I'd be better off buying a suppressor at that point though...
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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #26 on: February 14, 2017, 11:22:06 PM »
    If the HPA passes... Cans will become as cheap as Solvent Traps.  Some better than others... but cheap nonetheless overall.  The era of 1200 dollar cans is over.
    Gun Mufflers will be cheap and plenty and no longer special equipment.
    And Sub-Sonic ammo will become very popular.
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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #27 on: February 14, 2017, 11:34:10 PM »
    One thing I was thinking today: Our side always uses the argument that suppressors are rarely used in crimes.  That is true, in no small part because of how few there are in circulation.  Yes, I know, anyone with a lathe... But your average criminal is too lazy to learn to use a lathe, and the ones who are willing, are the reason it is 'rarely,' not 'never.'

    Once cans are deregulated, and can be bought as easily as a handgun, criminals will start to use them.  And then we can go through the media circus again.
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    MTK20

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #28 on: February 14, 2017, 11:48:26 PM »
    One thing I was thinking today: Our side always uses the argument that suppressors are rarely used in crimes.  That is true, in no small part because of how few there are in circulation.  Yes, I know, anyone with a lathe... But your average criminal is too lazy to learn to use a lathe, and the ones who are willing, are the reason it is 'rarely,' not 'never.'

    Once cans are deregulated, and can be bought as easily as a handgun, criminals will start to use them.  And then we can go through the media circus again.

     :scrutiny

    Now, I'm not the most mechanically adept, but haven't you, or someone you know ever played with pipe, steel wool, and some sort of expanding industrial foam?

    Also, while threads are nice, an L notch of sorts to be placed on the front site works well. So I've heard...
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

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    Kaso

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #29 on: February 15, 2017, 02:03:21 AM »
    :scrutiny

    Now, I'm not the most mechanically adept, but haven't you, or someone you know ever played with pipe, steel wool, and some sort of expanding industrial foam?

    Also, while threads are nice, an L notch of sorts to be placed on the front site works well. So I've heard...
    I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this.
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    Roper1911

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #30 on: February 15, 2017, 07:29:56 AM »
    I don't think criminals will start using them, suppressors are bulky, and with the exception of a few expensive integrally suppressed pistols, its going to be really hard to conceal a suppressed firearm. And if you watch iraqveterans old video on the subject, you'll know that criminals tend not to purchase expensive firearms.
    I don't doubt that we'll see an uptick of people killed with suppressed arms, seeing as almost everyone will use suppressors on their home defense rifles. And a small uptick in crimes due to the prevalence of suppressors on long arms. But for the most part I bet crimes will still be committed with unsuppressed pistols as they are now.
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

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    Kaso

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #31 on: February 15, 2017, 09:49:02 AM »
    I don't think criminals will start using them, suppressors are bulky, and with the exception of a few expensive integrally suppressed pistols, its going to be really hard to conceal a suppressed firearm. And if you watch iraqveterans old video on the subject, you'll know that criminals tend not to purchase expensive firearms.
    It can be done.  The point is, no, D-Money is not going to go after Ralph the deadbeat crackhead with a can.  Not for those spur of the moment crimes.  But what if he decides that the Red Comet gang is cutting in on him?  He wants to pop a few of their members to send a message, so out comes the can.

    I think two points need to be stressed here: For one, suppressors are going to be dirt cheap.  Anyone who can buy a handgun will be able to walk into a LGS and buy a perfectly useable $50 model off of the rack.  Maybe even a cheap/junk $20 model, but what does D-Money care?  It is for a one time use. 

    The other point is that criminals steal a good percentage of their guns from legal gun owners.  More suppressors in civilian circulation will mean more on the streets, in the hands of criminals.  I think we will find, in the next five years, that criminals will continue to use unsuppressed firearms for 'posturing' and defense, but suppressors will be come common for use on offense.
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    MTK20

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #32 on: February 15, 2017, 09:51:26 AM »
    I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this.

    TL;DR- No lathe required.

    At least, not on many long guns.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    sqlbullet

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #33 on: February 15, 2017, 11:26:44 AM »
    So...My 2 minute google-fu is not finding homicide by reason.  So this is just based on my perception.

    But my perception is this.  Guns are a really messy way to kill someone.  Lots of forensic evidence left behind.  Noisy in enclosed spaces, even when suppressed.  This is made worse with brass tossing auto-loading handguns, which are the ones most easily adapted to suppressors.

    It seems to me that if a forward thinking bad actor is going to go to the forethought of planning to eliminate someone, and thinks to use a suppressor to do so, they will probably plan and execute the crime in a way that leaves less evidence behind.

    I agree that as suppressor proliferate, we will see more of them used in crime.  But I predict that in 99% of the cases it will be because the guy who got the gun, usually by theft, doesn't know how to take it off, or thought it looked cool.
    Utah

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #34 on: February 16, 2017, 12:39:49 AM »
    Umm .  .  .  criminals have been using suppressors for many years.  Where do you think most of the improvised designs came from?   :hmm  Using an oil filter or a plastic pop bottle filled with packing peanuts or vermiculite isn't really something most manufacturers are going to spend time on. 

    If the idea is to have a one and done suppressor then the improvised ones are usually viable.  Where there's a will, there's a way, no?   :shrug
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    MTK20

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #35 on: February 16, 2017, 01:24:17 PM »
    Umm .  .  .  criminals have been using suppressors for many years.  Where do you think most of the improvised designs came from?   :hmm  Using an oil filter or a plastic pop bottle filled with packing peanuts or vermiculite isn't really something most manufacturers are going to spend time on. 

    If the idea is to have a one and done suppressor then the improvised ones are usually viable.  Where there's a will, there's a way, no?   :shrug

    We're saying the same thing, but with different words  :cool.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #36 on: February 16, 2017, 08:59:33 PM »
    Not many threaded barrel Hi Points. 
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    dot4x4

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #37 on: February 17, 2017, 03:45:44 PM »
    Not many threaded barrel Hi Points.

     :rotfl  But seriously...

    As someone who has no experience with cans, do they quiet an AR enough to use it indoors ?  And I have heard  ;) that duct tape, a soda can and steel wool works reasonably well on .22's. 
    Yes I live in California.  Please dont hold that against me.

    ksuguy

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #38 on: February 17, 2017, 05:00:39 PM »
    I have never used one indoors, but the one I tried outside made a .308 bolt gun sound similar to a .22.  Still loud, but not painfully loud.
    Kansas

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #39 on: February 17, 2017, 05:01:38 PM »
    :rotfl  But seriously...

    As someone who has no experience with cans, do they quiet an AR enough to use it indoors ?  And I have heard  ;) that duct tape, a soda can and steel wool works reasonably well on .22's.
    We have an Omega and have shot it indoors many times. I haven't had the chance to shoot it without muffs indoors because there is always someone else shooting around us. It may be a little too loud without ear plugs in, but I can't be sure. The sounds is reduced drastically though.

    Videos online don't really do the sound reduction justice.
    Utah

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #40 on: February 17, 2017, 05:16:46 PM »
    throwing mine in with the "i've heards", having never used a suppressor before, I've heard that the subsonic crack of most ammo will still will cause hearing damage?
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    mqondo

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #41 on: February 17, 2017, 05:24:51 PM »
    throwing mine in with the "i've heards", having never used a suppressor before, I've heard that the subsonic crack of most ammo will still will cause hearing damage?
    Supersonic crack?

    Might depend on location and the suppressor. Shooting the Omega with .223 and 5.56 ammo without plugs isn't bothersome when out in the boonies. Indoor with a pistol suppressor, the sonic boom is annoying and hurts the ears. Subsonic ammo is very enjoyable.
    Utah

    MTK20

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #42 on: February 17, 2017, 05:44:28 PM »
    Supersonic crack?

    Might depend on location and the suppressor. Shooting the Omega with .223 and 5.56 ammo without plugs isn't bothersome when out in the boonies. Indoor with a pistol suppressor, the sonic boom is annoying and hurts the ears. Subsonic ammo is very enjoyable.

    Typo on my part  :facepalm. Supersonic, yes. The lovely thing about subsonic ammo is that there is no crack  :rotfl.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Outbreak

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #43 on: February 22, 2017, 02:01:21 AM »
    It can be done.  The point is, no, D-Money is not going to go after Ralph the deadbeat crackhead with a can.  Not for those spur of the moment crimes.  But what if he decides that the Red Comet gang is cutting in on him?  He wants to pop a few of their members to send a message, so out comes the can.

    I think two points need to be stressed here: For one, suppressors are going to be dirt cheap.  Anyone who can buy a handgun will be able to walk into a LGS and buy a perfectly useable $50 model off of the rack.  Maybe even a cheap/junk $20 model, but what does D-Money care?  It is for a one time use. 

    The other point is that criminals steal a good percentage of their guns from legal gun owners.  More suppressors in civilian circulation will mean more on the streets, in the hands of criminals.  I think we will find, in the next five years, that criminals will continue to use unsuppressed firearms for 'posturing' and defense, but suppressors will be come common for use on offense.

    I think the question here is: who cares?

    Why do we give a s___ about Ralph the deadbeat crackhead? I have no problem with criminal-on-criminal murders.

    Meanwhile, the rest of us would like to preserve our hearing. I've never killed anyone with a gun, suppressed or not. Let's lose the restriction and let law-abiding citizens keep doing what we do. Criminals are gonna be criminals regardless of equipment.
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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #44 on: February 22, 2017, 10:26:51 AM »
    I think the question here is: who cares?

    Why do we give a s___ about Ralph the deadbeat crackhead? I have no problem with criminal-on-criminal murders.

    Meanwhile, the rest of us would like to preserve our hearing. I've never killed anyone with a gun, suppressed or not. Let's lose the restriction and let law-abiding citizens keep doing what we do. Criminals are gonna be criminals regardless of equipment.
    :facepalm

    Uh, yeah.  Just because I poke holes in one of the arguments against the HPA, that doesn't mean I don't want it to pass.  I hear what you say about not caring about criminals' behavior, but I am not thrilled with the idea that every second gangbanger is going to be running a can on his heater.
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    LowKey

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #45 on: February 22, 2017, 11:08:36 AM »
    :facepalm

    Uh, yeah.  Just because I poke holes in one of the arguments against the HPA, that doesn't mean I don't want it to pass.  I hear what you say about not caring about criminals' behavior, but I am not thrilled with the idea that every second gangbanger is going to be running a can on his heater.

    Well, it's not as if the NFA is any more effective than any other laws are at stopping criminals from committing unlawful acts.
    Homebuilt cans aren't rocket surgery.  I've built a few Form 1 cans, my first two took just a few hours with very minimal tools and was quite effective.

    If they're not building and using them now it's because they just don't see a need, not fear of running afoul of the NFA.

    MTK20

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #46 on: February 22, 2017, 11:14:17 AM »
    Well, it's not as if the NFA is any more effective than any other laws are at stopping criminals from committing unlawful acts.
    Homebuilt cans aren't rocket surgery.  I've built a few Form 1 cans, my first two took just a few hours with very minimal tools and was quite effective.

    If they're not building and using them now it's because they just don't see a need, not fear of running afoul of the NFA.

    Agreed. All it takes is time and effort. Mechanical ability isn't something that is only given to the law abiding. I forget where, but a man in prison made a semi auto pistol with a flash hider out of the plumbing in his cell toilet. They may not always evade doing time, but some of those guys are very resourceful.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Roper1911

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #47 on: February 22, 2017, 09:16:47 PM »
    If the HPA passes... Cans will become as cheap as Solvent Traps.  Some better than others... but cheap nonetheless overall.  The era of 1200 dollar cans is over.
    Gun Mufflers will be cheap and plenty and no longer special equipment.
    And Sub-Sonic ammo will become very popular.
    i don't think it'll go that far. but I think the $1200 dollar can will die. super cheap cans will be be primarily aluminum tubes with cheap stamped baffles for $50-100. made mainly for massive production numbers to keep up with the demand. with $2-700 premium cans more like the current $1200 cans, CNC'd steel, inconel, and titanium baffles.
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

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    Mississippi556

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #48 on: February 23, 2017, 09:12:33 AM »
    They are legal in many European countries, or at least as legal as firearms are there.  I wonder what pricing is in markets where they are legal?  That might give us a clue of what to expect if we deregulate in the US.
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

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    Re: SilencerCo Layoffs
    « Reply #49 on: February 23, 2017, 11:47:42 AM »
    They are legal in many European countries, or at least as legal as firearms are there.  I wonder what pricing is in markets where they are legal?  That might give us a clue of what to expect if we deregulate in the US.

    I think in Europe they range from $100-$300.  Some require a license to own but the cost is small compared to the US Tax stamp.  Plus, if China gets into the manufacturing game,  I'm sure that will put downward pricing pressure.  Right now, I think most silencers are expensive because they provide the lifetime warranty.  If you go through the time of waiting plus the tax stamp, you want the company to take care of you in case of problems.  Company factors that into pricing.

    If they only have to provide like a 30 day warranty, I bet they can drop the prices some and probably don't have to be as precise as they are now.
    Utah

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