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Author Topic: RIP Ammo  (Read 4948 times)

StevenTing

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RIP Ammo
« on: January 26, 2014, 12:19:53 AM »
What do you think?  Watched the videos and they seem cool.  Not sure if this has been posted before.

http://thelibertydigest.com/2014/01/24/the-new-ammunition-that-has-gun-owners-drooling/
Utah


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Nightcrawler

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2014, 12:32:09 AM »


G2R RIP 2014


G2 Research R.I.P. 9mm round in action. Visit our website @ [url=http://www.g2rammo.com]www.g2rammo.com
[/url]

The bullet is interesting looking.

It's a 9mm that fires a 96 grain bullet at 1265 FPS, that fragments into what looks like eight slices.

I'm not a curmudgeon.  I know firearms technology is going to advance.  I'm all for that.  But I'm leery of flashy videos for new mystery bullets that are supposedly a game changer in effectiveness and lethality. Anyone remember the hooplah over RCBD or whatever ammo from 2003 or so? Armor Piercing/Limited Penetration, they claimed. It would only fragment in a human body, because the human body was warm, but would punch through an armored vest.  (Never mind the fact that a gun barrel gets way hotter than a palsy 98.6*.) Magic bullets that would make 5.56mm kill like a 7mm Rem Mag.

Turned out it was a bunch of crap, and they quietly faded away.

These guys aren't making such wild claims. But I'm not impressed by slow-motion videos of a bullet hitting things.  I'm sorry, but there's no shortcut to improving terminal ballistics.  At the end of the day, it comes down to how much mass you're flinging a the other guy, and how fast it's going when it hits him (and that doesn't even account for shot placement).  If you want something with better lethality than the current broad selection of 9mm loads, then they have something for that. It's called .357 Magnum. Get a heavier bullet, and/or throw it faster.  (Or just shoot the badguy again; you've got a, what, seventeen round magazine in that thing? Use it.)

EDIT: In a lot of sane jurisdictions, it wouldn't matter.  But can you imagine if George Zimmerman would've been using "R.I.P. bullets"? The prosecutors could've had a field day with that.  I think serious ammunition companies know better than to use names like that.
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coelacanth

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 12:34:07 AM »
That's a nasty piece of work.  I can just imagine the county prosecutor getting a copy of that video and entering it into evidence for the prosecution, though.    :doh
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Avenger29

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 12:49:03 AM »
Bulls___ium.

Yet another thing for the Bubbas and Cletuses to froth over like their beloved Judges and pistol bayonets. Great. I cant wait to encounter the first window licker with his hi point mag half full of these (because thats all he could afford) proclaiming these to be the next Bestest Thing Ever. Or The Ammo With The Most Death Power.
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HiVelSword

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2014, 01:32:32 AM »
They need to rename it something else and tank the video with the dramatic douche narration.

Other than that it is probably an effective round. They mention translating it to a shotgun slug. That's gotta be a nasty wound. I can hear the M.E.'s b____ing already.

Too bad Patrick Moynihan wasn't still around. And he thought Black Talons were evil!  :rotfl
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theirishdragon

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2014, 10:23:41 AM »
Granted, it looks better than that spinning tether bullet that was going around just before SHOT, but seriously, 96 grains?  Kinetic energy is as much a function of mass as it is velocity.  So, less than half the weight of the .45 ACP rounds I'm throwing, at about the same muzzle velocity, and it fragments into smaller pieces on impact.  I call bulls___ on their "massive kinetic impact."  I don't care how many buzzwords you throw out with the Honest Trailers voice, ballistics are ballistics, and the shape of your projectile isn't going to magically transfer energy it doesn't have.  There is no handwavium.  You failed math and physics, go home.
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Mick

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2014, 11:27:41 AM »
I see it having serious cycling issues in a lot of firearms which will not help it. Also see the cavity getting clogged up as easy if not easier than other hollow points.


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StevenTing

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2014, 11:33:15 AM »
Never thought about cycling issues.  Those pointy things would make it hard to feed.   
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cpaspr

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2014, 12:59:38 PM »
Also see the cavity getting clogged up as easy if not easier than other hollow points.
The "clogging" is part of how it is supposed to function.  As the cavity fills up it exerts the small amount of outward pressure needed to cause the petals to peel outward.  Once they start bending, they break and cause their own damage channels.

That said, their marketing department appears to be somewhat lacking in their sensitivity training.  Anyone having to use these in a true self-defense situation would probably lose the civil case, even if they didn't lose the criminal case.  This will hopefully go the way of the Black Talons and be pulled from the market.  But unlike the Black Talons, they won't come back with a more sedate name.
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StevenTing

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 01:12:55 PM »
I think I'd like to own some just because.  Like a collectors item.
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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2014, 02:09:57 PM »
For testing... playing around with... sure.   
For defensive use?  No way.

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2014, 02:58:01 PM »
The "look" of this unique cartridge and the polished video give this ammo some cool points. Before reading the comments I didn't even think of how much mass this geometry takes away from the round you are firing, you're hardly sending anything down range  ;). While I would be more then happy to get a box of 9mm for my Glock 19, I still think that a soft point .357 magnum would serve someone well in self defense.

I am naturally wary of .380 and I do not see this ammo increasing the cartridges performance.

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Chief45

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2014, 03:54:47 PM »
going to keep it on the shelf next to your six pack of Billy Beer ?   :neener

I think I'd like to own some just because.  Like a collectors item.
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StevenTing

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2014, 03:55:49 PM »
It will sit next to my six pack of Polygamy Porter.   
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huey148

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2014, 05:48:43 PM »
Multiple wound channels? I dunno... for my home think I'll just stick to my 870 and 00 buck for that...

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Atlas8193

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2014, 07:09:41 PM »
The fact that the bullet has to be machined means it'll cost bookoo bucks; even if it actually does all the garbage they said it will.

And really? G18 and 93R's? Unless that was to show they fed reliably, there was no point. Even if the average Joe could get his hands on one of those guns, why bother with expensive gimmicky ammo? VOLUME fire...
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Avenger29

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2014, 07:32:20 PM »
The fact that the bullet has to be machined means it'll cost bookoo bucks; even if it actually does all the garbage they said it will.

And really? G18 and 93R's? Unless that was to show they fed reliably, there was no point. Even if the average Joe could get his hands on one of those guns, why bother with expensive gimmicky ammo? VOLUME fire...

Because...cool video!

Smoke and mirrors sells bulls___ like nothing else.

I don't THINK I'll ever have to face down routers in the streets.

I should hope not. Mobs of rogue woodworking tools would suck to repel.

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2014, 10:51:39 PM »
Smoke and mirrors sells bulls___ like nothing else.


If that was completely true, more than .9% of the US population would have signed up for Obamacare.
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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2014, 11:52:54 PM »
Makes me wonder.
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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2014, 12:34:39 AM »
yeah the overpenetration on that is really wierding me out.  Its a 98 gr projectile - how in the heck does that button of lead continue through what I expect is a standard 20" block of ballistic gel enough to penetrate the backstop?  By then its what a 45 grain projectile?  What kind of base is that thing?   :shocked
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IMerrell

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2014, 10:53:42 AM »
I don't think the blocks of gelatin shown are standard size, if anything they look half size to me.
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theirishdragon

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2014, 11:24:29 AM »
It's not even lead, it's CNCed copper.  There's simply no physical way this thing is performing the way they're hyping it.
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ksuguy

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2014, 11:28:06 AM »
They should paint it black,  that is sure to improve the ballistic performance even more.
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theirishdragon

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2014, 11:31:09 AM »
Fortis cadere, cedere non potest.

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Re: RIP Ammo
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2014, 11:32:11 AM »
There really is nothing new under the sun.

I recall about 10-15 years ago there was quite a bit of talk about loading hot 90gr 9mm HP's to "beat .45 ACP".  And yep, if you loaded them out to around 1600fps, they did, in terms of theoretical "power".

However, I notice that the powder companies downgraded their load data to a max of about 1300 fps pretty quickly.

In terms of practical usage, I can recall reading only one article that discussed using high velocity 90gr 9x19 loads successfully, and that was one author who used them for hunting, and reported mostly one shot kills on deer, from a stand, at short range, using bullets like gold dots that tend to hold together pretty well during penetration.

Frankly, this is nothing more than the same.  It's a tired idea that has been recycled over and over again.  Comes up at least every few years.

Light, specially designed bullets, at high velocity... Gosh darn, Gomer, I never heard of such a radical idea before...
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