Author Topic: Finding a good lawyer. (Read 8293 times)

ron h · « **on:** September 29, 2014, 05:24:01 pm »

A guy that I know was recently in situation where someone tried to attack him and he retreated. While retreating he pulled his handgun and placed in on his chest, barrel down, both hands covering the gun. He did that until he was in a place of safety.

The attack filed a complaint accusing him of chasing him with the gun and pointing it at him.

He needs a lawyer. There is a network of gun lawyers, and someone give me a link? I promised that I'd help look for a good lawyer who knows this kind of law.

Thanks

WeTheArmed.com

seanp · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2014, 05:50:16 pm »

Find him the best lawyer possible.

When you don't need one, their fees seem out of control.

When you need one, it doesn't matter.

When I had a thing, I retained the best, most expensive lawyer in the city. It bankrupted me for three years.

But... cleared of all charges...

coyotesfan97 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2014, 08:03:30 pm »

http://armedcitizensnetwork.org

Here's one I found. The drawback is any network like that probably doesn't take cases that happen after the fact.

I'd contact the NRA too for local lawyers. Another resource is who the local police Association or FOP uses for Officer Involved Shootings.

I take it he didn't file a report when thus happened?

Skullcrusher · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2014, 12:09:52 am »

Retreat.

Why would he ask you to find a lawyer for him? Had to ask.

Mikee5star · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2014, 12:44:09 am »

USCCA.com has lists of lawyers in all 50 states IIRC.

Matthew Mayner · « **Reply #5 on:** September 30, 2014, 01:09:16 am »

Sounds like he should have shot the guy.

I kid.

Kaso · « **Reply #6 on:** September 30, 2014, 03:04:46 am »

First, IANAL, and all of that...

Crap... This guy really dug himself a hole. By not filing a police report first, he put himself at a disadvantage. A big one. Assuming that it actually played out exactly as he told you - big 'if' - his assailant (I would bet money it was a relative) got all pissy and decided to use the police to get 'payback'. Unfortunately, said assailant is now the 'victim' in the eyes of the police, and your friend is the 'attacker.' This sucks, especially if your friend is being honest.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure (as once again, this is not my field) how this is going to reach a happy conclusion.

Kaso

scarville · « **Reply #7 on:** September 30, 2014, 08:42:29 am »

I don't know much about lawyers outside this area so all I could do is plug "<place with jurisdiction> self defense lawyer" into duckduckgo. I assume you've already done that so all I can really do right now is offer good thoughts that justice will prevail.

sarge712 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 30, 2014, 09:36:16 am »

Around here its a race. Right or wrong, whoever gets to the magistrate first, gets to file immediate charges.

ksuguy · « **Reply #9 on:** September 30, 2014, 09:42:00 am »

Unfortunately, the kind of loudmouthed jackass that likes to start fights is often the same kind of person that likes run to the authorities when it does not go well for them. This might be the teacher or parents when they are kids, but then it turns into the cops when they are adults.

Really the only thing you can do is try to not associate with people like that in the first place. Hope your friend finds a good lawyer, he will probably need one.

coyotesfan97 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 30, 2014, 04:15:33 pm »

It's not so much as a race here. I don't know how many times I've heard the wailing "but I called you first" while driving to the jail.

FWIW I think you are better off reporting an incident of self defense as soon as you can.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Coronach · « **Reply #11 on:** September 30, 2014, 09:38:28 pm »

Our dispatchers are so jaded. Almost as jaded as us cops.

"Car 54, I need to start you 123 Any Street for an assault report for the loser out of a fight."

And 75% of the time, that's who it is. The guy who won has no need to call the cops, he won. Had this guy (the caller in my example, not the OP's friend) won, he wouldn't have called the cops either. But if you lose and call the cops- whether you started it or not- your side is what gets written down. If you BOTH call the cops, BOTH sides get written down, which is better. Best is when both sides call and there is PC to arrest- but it's usually one guy's word vs another's, and without corroborating evidence, you usually don't have enough.

Yep, he needs a lawyer. And, don't be too hard on him for not calling the cops. Even if he had, if this guy wanted to go to the prosecutor's office and file charges, he probably could. He'd still be in a better position if he had his side on record that night, but it's not an automatic shield against the law.

Also, he might be shading the truth his way.

Mike

Coronach · « **Reply #12 on:** September 30, 2014, 09:43:49 pm »

Quote

I don't know how many times I've heard the wailing "but I called you first" while driving to the jail.

There may or may not be a recording in the bowels of some server in the basement of HQ with me mocking an arrestee, mimicking his pathetic tone of voice, pacing and (drunken) inflection:

Him: But I called YOU. I CALLED YOU!

Me: But YOU committed assault. YOU COMMITTED ASSAULT!

Him: But he beat my *censored*!

Me: And YOU deserved it!

Mike

PS By "beat my donkey", the suspect means "threw one punch and knocked me the f*** out, after I hit him three or four times in a drunken rage while he tried to back away, as verified by, oh, the whole darned bar."

sarge712 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 01, 2014, 01:01:25 am »

Yeah I love those tough guys The casino bars have one every night.

We had a wannabe Blood act the fool down in Bryson City then fled back to the reservation screaming into his cell that "they" were after him. We met him at a store on the line and laughed him down. I initially refused a report on it beyond the minimum but I decided to document every bit of it to show what a squealing little mangina he was.

Then there's my all time favorite, this guy:

Loudmouth -"Good thing you cops got here. Ima fixin to kick his ass!"
Me -"Oh well don't let me stand in the way of progress. Officers lets go. "
Loudmouth -"Waitwaitwait! No see its like this..."

My most hated call is
Dispatcher: "Any available unit there's a fight about to start at _______"
Me -"Dispatch that's negative. Advise us if it actually does occur."

Coronach · « **Reply #14 on:** October 01, 2014, 09:02:09 pm »

Quote

Me -"Oh well don't let me stand in the way of progress. Officers lets go."

My other fave is the guy that says "I'd kick your butt if you weren't wearing that badge."

*CLANK* The badge lands on the hood of the cruiser.

"Uh ... I ... nevermind."

Mike

PS Not that I condone such activity, as it would make for a most entertaining (and NOT in a good way) use of force write up, and having to explain why we ended up thumping this guy and NOT charging him with Assault on a Police Officer (because, that hardly seems cricket) would be rather difficult.

ron h · « **Reply #15 on:** October 06, 2014, 01:19:18 am »

Quote from: coyotesfan97 on September 29, 2014, 08:03:30 pm

http://armedcitizensnetwork.org

Here's one I found. The drawback is any network like that probably doesn't take cases that happen after the fact.

I'd contact the NRA too for local lawyers. Another resource is who the local police Association or FOP uses for Officer Involved Shootings.

I take it he didn't file a report when thus happened?

1.) Someone sent the name of a Gun lawyer, and this guy is contacting him. In fact, I am going to go along with him for support

2.) The problem is that this dude was simply a witness to a crime, the perp charged at him. The guy retreated to his house and called 911. The perp is trying to deflect. The police arrived - a young rookie with a chip on his shoulder, this guy clammed up and the cop pressed charges.

Quote from: Skullcrusher on September 30, 2014, 12:09:52 am

Retreat.

Why would he ask you to find a lawyer for him? Had to ask.

I ran a law office for years. Civil work and DUI. I am retired and my Address book doesn't have gun guys.

Quote from: Kaso on September 30, 2014, 03:04:46 am

First, IANAL, and all of that...

Crap... This guy really dug himself a hole. By not filing a police report first, he put himself at a disadvantage. A big one. Assuming that it actually played out exactly as he told you - big 'if' - his assailant (I would bet money it was a relative) got all pissy and decided to use the police to get 'payback'. Unfortunately, said assailant is now the 'victim' in the eyes of the police, and your friend is the 'attacker.' This sucks, especially if your friend is being honest.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure (as once again, this is not my field) how this is going to reach a happy conclusion.

Kaso

Never said he didn't file a police report. As I said above, he was a witness to a crime - in fact his GF called 911.

Cops showed up 2 or 3 hours later.

ron h · « **Reply #16 on:** October 06, 2014, 01:20:52 am »

This guy and his GF were watching TV. The perp and another person pulled into their driveway and proceeded to assault someone. The guy and GF stepped outside to see what was going on. They watched the BG attack some people and then an attempted assault on a very young child. The guy yelled ''hey stop that'' and the BG charged him and grabbed him - screaming DO NOT CALL THE POLICE!!!

The guy retreated (as per our state law - you have to make an attempt to retreat) - he pulled his gun up to his chest covered with both hands as he backed away (the BG was much bigger than he), he backed up in to the house while GF dialed 911. 2 hours later the cop showed up.

The cop got mad because the guy told him, I will gladly talk to you with a lawyer present. Copper got irate, made some idle threats and then 3 or 4 months later - he was charged with a felony.

Coronach · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2014, 06:33:10 am »

Grand Jury indictment? That's what that sounds like.

coyotesfan97 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2014, 07:47:43 am »

What size city/agency are we talking about?

Mikee5star · « **Reply #19 on:** October 06, 2014, 06:14:42 pm »

Ron is in MN, I think Minneapolis area if I remember correctly. But that area covers lots of jurisdictions and some are super liberal, well actually most.

ron h · « **Reply #20 on:** October 06, 2014, 10:55:21 pm »

Quote

What size city/agency are we talking about?

We have our liberal areas - that is for sure. We have a lot of Liberal Gun Lovers too.

This was a suburban police department, one of those that rookies tend to flock too so they can get experience to move up to the big leagues. It is a decent sized PD in a larger 'burb - not a real high crime area. Lots of home owner associations and Town Home Communities.

I used to live in that area a number of years ago, a cop picked me up one night for walking along the road with a large stick in my hand. A LARGE STICK! He asked why I was carrying a large stick, I said ''I am walking along a rural road and there are dogs around here running loose. I don't want to get bit.'' He said ''Oh... um..er. makes sense''. Then he offered me a ride home so that I would not have to walk along the road.

Quote

Grand Jury indictment? That's what that sounds like.

I've reviewed the paperwork - it was a standard charge, served via mail rather than in person or via an arrest warrant.

coyotesfan97 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 06, 2014, 11:34:12 pm »

Oh I get you like lawyers starting in small municipal courts as rookie prosecutors and public defenders before they move onto the county court system or into private practice right?

There was this one time in court where this rookie public defender kept mispronouncing my name even after I corrected him each time. Do you think he was doing it on purpose?

He managed to get it right after the Judge pronounced my name correctly for him.

ron h · « **Reply #22 on:** October 07, 2014, 03:12:53 am »

There are a few places around here that the younger cops can get into easy. If they have their POST Cert. They get paid a little less, but after a few years they can apply to a bigger dept without being one of their rookies.

Actually one place that a lot of them go to is the State Fair Police Department. They always have at least one patrolling 24/7. It is large and used year round. Then each time a building is used for an event, there is at least one cop assigned to that building. Most of them work part time - 1 or 2 days a month - or whatever is required to keep their license current.

This guy in question, a client of my old firm - said the cop looked like a kid with a chip on his shoulder.

akodo · « **Reply #23 on:** October 11, 2014, 03:02:21 pm »

I am from MN. We have a group here called GOCRA, it's the group that got carry passed, and changed it's name after. The current president a few years ago posted this list as some top notch gun lawyers

Jeffrey Benson
P.O. Box 1356
Minnetonka, MN 55345
612-423-2112
bensonlaw[at}comcast.net

Marc Berris
Segal, Roston and Berris, PLLP
Commerce at the Crossings
250 S 2nd Av
Minneapolis, MN 55401-2161
612-332-3100
www.berrislaw.com
marc[at}berrislaw.com

David M. Gross
6420 French Lake Trail
Faribault, MN 55021-7482
Phone: (507) 333-5615
Cell: (612) 388-3880 (but it is rarely on; leave a message there, IF you are very patient.)
Fax: (507) 334-1579
E-Mail: david.gross[at}tcq.net

Brian Toder
www.toder.com
3700 Campbell MithunTower
222 South Ninth Street
Minneapolis, MN 55402
(612) 336-2918
btoder{at)chestnutcambronne.com

ron h · « **Reply #24 on:** October 12, 2014, 05:15:42 pm »

Thanks for that. Someone else sent me the name of a lawyer and we hooked him up. This guy used our firm a few times and I went to the first meeting with him. This a gun rights lawyer (among other things) - we knew some of the same people.

If you pull your gun and don't have some form of defense insurance such as

http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/membership-benefits

or something similar - you can expect to pay through the nose and this guy is paying a lot of $$.

Even though Open Carry is legal - I am more and more of the opinion that conceal carry is the best.