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Author Topic: Carrying "Old guns"  (Read 5379 times)

Grant

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Carrying "Old guns"
« on: May 02, 2010, 10:25:39 PM »
  Okay.  Here's a "Fun" topic.  There's 3 categories.

#1. Hunting/Sporting.

#2. General carrying (Probably not applicable if you can't open carry while working every day.....) That is "Always with you", either on your hip, or in the overhead gunrack.

#3. Concealed Carrying.

Okay, the question:  What's the oldest, or possibly...most oddball you've carried in those categories?      Note: It seems like there was already a thread about this?  But I couldn't find it...

#1:  M1908 8MM Mannlicher Schouner. Got a nice little 3X3 muley with it.   Tried with my '43 vintage Mosin-Nagant but got the rear leaf set on 900 yards before going hunting  :facepalm

#2.
Handgun: 1937 S&W Brazilian .45acp.   I sorta quite using it when dad-re-appropriated the holster for his Security Six.  But a nice little gun.  Kicked pretty hard...
Rifle:    Early 90's Winchester Ranger .223.  My "Carry rifles" are generally geared towards always there, prcise hits, VS "Oh neato" effect. 

#3.  60's Argentine Hi-Power 9mm.

  I was just wondering because today I was out doing some shooting with my 1917 Colt .45acp revolver.  It hits high left (alot), but I shot a buncha rounds through it, nailed some gophers,etc.     I never bothered bending the front sight (or having the barrel turned), because I got it for $200, considered it a plinking gun.      Took my last three shots and fired a quickie group, got just under 3", at 25 yards.   

Heck, if I get the front blade bent over a little, I figured I might just start carrying that sucker as my every day gun.      It's bluing is basically gone, and was a little rusted in a spot or two...but for a USE gun, it might just be the ticket.   

Well then I got to thinking perty radical......If it gets "regulated" I might hafta get some normal pressure(all I got's hardball, +P 200's and Fiocchi XTPs) .45 hollowpoint loads and try CC'ing the thing  ;D       

Well the thought of using a pre-1920's revolver, long ol' 5.5" barrel and all is starting to appeal to me, and was curious what all everyone else has used  ;D
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”


coelacanth

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 11:06:50 PM »
OK - I'll play. . .

#1)  Harrington & Richardson break action single shot 16 guage.  27 inch barrel appears to be an improved cylinder choke. Patent date February 27, 1900.  In the last couple of years used mostly to control groundhogs, raccoons, crows and feral dogs at my Dad's farm.  So slim and light you could carry it all day no sweat but when you cock the hammer it inspires a great deal of confidence.  You'd probably need a dump truck to hold all the game that gun has taken over the years. 

#2)  S & W Model 10 .38 Special with a square butt and a 5 inch pencil barrel.  Stock grips with a Tyler T-Grip adapter.  Some of the guys got to shoot it at the last Arizona Range Day.  It has been my camping, hiking, backpacking kit gun for decades and I seldom venture on a journey without it.  Light weight, accurate and utterly reliable.

#3)  Star Model PD .45 ACP.  4 inch barrel with a short grip alloy frame it is slightly smaller than a Colt lightweight Commander.  It carries and conceals well and is plenty accurate for most defensive pistol work. 

The Star is the newest of the bunch and I've had it for close to twenty five years.  The Model 10 is the first handgun I bought for myself when I became of legal age to own a firearm and has been with me for about thirty two years.  The H & R has been in my family since the early twentieth century and recently came to me when my father passed away.  They are all working guns and get shot several times a year. 
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FMJ

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2010, 11:17:29 PM »
1. [the Mosin that I would have picked up yesterday]\
2.I do have an 1887 Swedish Nagant in 7.5x22R, if that counts for anything.
3.Nothing
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Thernlund

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 11:19:24 PM »
1.  n/a

2 and 3.  S&W Bodyguard (Model 49) with a pinned barrel (pre-1981).


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Bo Smith

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 11:23:02 PM »
I have an old LC Smith field grade 16 gauge side by side. It was a favorite dove and quail killer when I was in high school.

I don't really have anything else oddball.
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JesseL

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 12:04:17 AM »
#1: A.H. Fox 12 guage side by side.

#2, &#3: A tie between a S&W M&P .38 Special and an Argentine Ballester-Molina, both from the early 1950s.






The old BM stoked with Hornady TAP 185 gr rounds does a helluva number on a cottontail.
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luke213(adamsholsters)

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 01:16:06 AM »
Well I don't really have anything that qualify's for the first two categories but my EDC gun is my old 1911, it's not really pretty and best I can tell it was made before 1966 but I'm not sure how far I guess it depends on how many they were producing during those years. Either way it's just over 100,000 serial number so I would guess it's over 44 years old and it still sees daily carry and constant shooting. Had to put a firing pin in it about 8 years ago, put springs in it a few months back but mostly just because it was due not any real malfunction. Went through and gave it a good cleaning and put a beavertail on it because it was biting me. Otherwise it's just a good old 1911 that just keeps going, not super pretty compared to the newer tactical stuff but I wouldn't trade it for any gun out there;)

Luke


Quote
Argentine Colts and Sistemas, 1914-1966, Part Two

AGENCY SLIDE MARKINGS ON SISTEMA COLTS:

(No markings); (Argentine crest with no agency); Ejercito Argentino (Army); I.P.(?); Aeronautica Argentina (Air Force); Marina de Guerra, Armada Nacional, Armada Argentina, Marina Argentina (Navy, in various periods); Gendarmeria Nacional (Border Patrol); Ministerio Del Interior - Policia De Los Territorios Nacional; Policia De La Provencia De Buenos Aires; Policia De La Provencia De Santa Fe; C.F.S. (Federal Internal Security).

HARTFORD BUENOS AIRES POLICE MODELS

A batch of 5,320 Hartford Colts were made in 1933 and issued to the Buenos Aires Police Department, and are known as the "Policia de la Capital" pistols. The first order was placed that year through a private arms dealer. Police pistols show the fit and finish typical of pre-war Colts, and are blued with commercial markings. The police pistols are serial numbered within the C165000 through C171000 range.

The pistols have Colt markings, with POLICIA DE LA CAPITAL and /or POLICIA FEDERAL on the slides. On the right sides of the frames is marked, "Government Model" over the serial numbers. The tops of the slides are marked with property numbers, 1 - 5,320.

HARTFORD COLT COMMERCIAL MODELS

From 1914 through 1941, excluding the 10,000 pistols from the 1927 contract, Argentina purchased 11,616 pistols from Colt and they bear various slide markings: 1,420 pistols for the army; 2,290 pistols for the navy; and 6,183 pistols for federal police departments. A total of 1,723 other Colt pistols were also purchased, most of which were likely for provincial police departments. These pistols were in the Colt commercial serial number range.

REFERENCE BOOKS

http://coolgunsite.com/collectors_guide.htm Scroll down moderator Ty Moore's page for related reference books. Also, Military Pistols of Argentina (Self Published, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1994), by Alex Gherovici. This volume can be purchased by writing to the author at:
Alex Gherovici
P.O. Box 58506
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102

(*) Sistema production numbers do not seem to be universally accepted.

It was specified in the 1927 agreement, beginning with the 10,000 Hartford Colts, that the Argentine pistols would be separately serial numbered from Colt's regular production. Those pistols were numbered 1 - 10,000.

Some maintain that the numbering continued, beginning with 10,001, and that production of Sistemas 10,001 through 24,000 took place 1927 through 1942 at the Estaban de Luca arsenal.

According to one source, "8,000 (Sistemas) were made in the late 1920's, followed by a....batch of 30,000 in the 1930's to early 1940's...."

What is universally accepted is that, at the end of WWII, after the opening of FMAP Rosario, production of Sistemas 24,001 through 112,494 took place through 1966, for a total of 88,494 pistols produced at Rosario. Some steadfastly maintain that Sistema production begins and ends at Rosario.

But the assertion of production 1927-1942 makes sense. And why would serial numbering begin at Rosario with 24,001? No guns had been produced there before; it had just opened. And why would the 1927 contract not produce a single gun for 18 years?

One answer holds that the 10,000 1927 Hartford Colts fulfilled Argentina's needs for the next 18 years. But Rosario averaged over 4,000 pistols per year for 22 years and, during that time, Argentina continued to buy Hartford Colts.

The fact is that 88,494 Sistemas were made at Rosario, and those are the Sistemas turning up in today's marketplace. But assuming 1927-1942 production anywhere else, what happened to those 14,000 pistols? There are plenty of other pistols still around from that era. Where are the early Sistemas?
MichiganI am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, luke@adamsholsters.com


seanp

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 07:15:20 AM »
#1.  I'm pretty pedestrian here.  I like to use what works, so I am hesitant to use anything I don't have a lot of trigger time one.  I'd say an iron sighted Carl-G model 98 in 8mm is about as exotic as I have hunted with.

#2.  General carry:  a Boito .410 backpacker with a 12" barrel.  Neat little shottie.

#3.  Concealed carry:  Concealed carry is not generally legal in Canada.  However antique pistols are not considered guns.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 02:50:59 PM by seanp »
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seanp

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 07:18:14 AM »
"Nobody wants to be here and nobody wants to leave."
The Road - Cormac McCarthy

M1911a1lvr

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 10:39:46 AM »
Well lets see, My guns that would fit this thread:

    #1: My very first hunting trip when i was 13, was done in the most southern part of the Ungava Bay Region. Hunting caribou with a distant uncle and cousin. It was damn cold and not a place for the faint of heart let me tell you. I used an old  No1,Mk3* Enfield in .303 Brit made by BSA. I remember it being very heavy and the ugliest gun i had every seen.

    #2: When i went to Somalia in Feb of 93, i was issued an M14 rifle and an M1911a1 pistol. Everywhere we went i carried them, The M14 if i remember right was Winchester made, The M1911a1 was a Singer Sewing Machine Co made gun. It had a date somewhere in mid 1943 time frame i think. But the mags were WW1 and WW2 mix, I had a couple of the old lanyard ring mags for it.


    #3: The first gun that i ever did CCW in Vermont with was a sporterized, Cut down Webley Mk 2 in .38/200 IIRC. That got carried for all of about 3 hours. The time it took for us to go to the store to get ammo, Speedloaders and holster for the Ruger Security Six .357 mag i was going to buy. That Ruger then got traded in for my very first M1911a1 a few months later. My buddy still has that Webley i think.
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Grant

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 02:12:49 PM »
  Lotta nice old guns.

  Old doesn't mean obsolete  ;D
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

Storyteller

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 05:27:02 PM »
That's a nice old Smith.
Getting really tired of the old jokes. My 1st duty issue weapon, USAF was a S&W much like this one. My first leo issue, same thing. There is nothing obsolete about a wheel gun.
#1 Don't hunt.
#2 General Carry/Concealed Toss up between a WWII issue P-38 and a MAB PA-15. Neither was pretty, both carried more rounds than the S&W, and hellm, I liked the looks I got in the locker room.
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Thernlund

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 05:32:19 PM »
I didn't get that he was joking.  ???


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JesseL

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 05:59:40 PM »
Getting really tired of the old jokes. My 1st duty issue weapon, USAF was a S&W much like this one. My first leo issue, same thing. There is nothing obsolete about a wheel gun.

I agree with you on the utility of wheelguns (obviously, since I've carried that M&P enough), but seeing that that gun belonged to my grandfather and is roughly the same age as my parents I'm afraid that to many of us it is definitely old:shrug
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Storyteller

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 06:12:17 PM »
oops. I guess that does make some of us old. Oh well. Like fine cigars, great wine, and sooth double action revolvers, we only get better with age. Right now, my vehicle shotgun is an original Winchester 97 12g breakdown hammered pump. Originally from the Hawaii federal Prison, closed down in the mid 50's.
HawaiiA cup of campfire coffee, in a hot tin cup, with a splash of Irish whiskey is why the Gods get up in the morning.

Grant

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2010, 07:15:00 PM »
  Lol. No jokes intended.

 It's just....Well to me, any gun that's over 50 years old (as in pre-1955) is an "old" gun.

I will definately say revolvers aren't obsolete.  And truthfully: If I was SERIOUSLY going to carry a revolver....I'd almost go with a older one.   The S&W's and Colts from the just-post-WW2 Era and earlier have the slickest actions, plenty accurate. 
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

seanp

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2010, 05:04:42 PM »
Getting really tired of the old jokes. My 1st duty issue weapon, USAF was a S&W much like this one. My first leo issue, same thing. There is nothing obsolete about a wheel gun.

I wasn't joking.  I appreciate well crafted pieces of machinery, and even though today's S&W are a well made gun, they are by no means as well fitted and finished as those of bygone days.  The same can be said of pre-WW2 commercial Colt's and Lugers.  They just aren't made that well anymore.  I suppose that goes for a lot of things as well.  "Old" doesn't mean bad, quite often it means better.
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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2010, 11:39:17 AM »
I have an old Colt 1903 that I'm going to eventually overhaul. It's only a .32 but I'll still carry it.

And one day I'm going to buy an Uberti S&W Nodel 3 in .44 Russian. And I'm going to carry that too. New gun, old design. Does that count? Reed's actually makes a 180 grain JHP defensive load for it. How awesome is that?  ;D

And before anyone says anything, yeah I know it's not that powerful. But I believe it has what it takes to do the job. Especially with a good JHP. If Reed's didn't offer it I'd probably load my own. Although LRN could save my bacon, I'd much rather have something that expands.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2010, 11:55:25 AM »
  Tried with my '43 vintage Mosin-Nagant but got the rear leaf set on 900 yards before going hunting  :facepalm
Yards or Arshins?
The 8 inches difference between the two could really throw you off at that sort of distance :P

I don't really carry or use anything that old although I do have a Lee-Enfield No5 Mk1 jungle carbine.

-Josh

seanp

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2010, 12:17:37 PM »
I have an old Colt 1903 that I'm going to eventually overhaul. It's only a .32 but I'll still carry it.

And one day I'm going to buy an Uberti S&W Nodel 3 in .44 Russian. And I'm going to carry that too. New gun, old design. Does that count? Reed's actually makes a 180 grain JHP defensive load for it. How awesome is that?  ;D

And before anyone says anything, yeah I know it's not that powerful. But I believe it has what it takes to do the job. Especially with a good JHP. If Reed's didn't offer it I'd probably load my own. Although LRN could save my bacon, I'd much rather have something that expands.

I've actually long been intrigued by the idea of a snubbie Webley or S&W in .455 Webley loaded with the old "Manstopper" bullets.  The originals were 218gr, but I'd like to see them in the 260gr bullet weight of the LRN round.  I think even a relatively soft 260gr wadcutter out of a pistol like that would have pretty good terminal performance.
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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2010, 07:48:53 PM »
#1-1873 Trapdoor rifle (original), next oldest is a Trapdoor Carbine, then 1892 Winchesters rifle and carbine (not sure which is oldest).

#2 & #3- I don't often carry old handguns. (Shoot often, just don't carry.) Oldest would probably be a CZ27 of unknown year. Next would be a '68 Walther PP.

Wyman

Grant

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2010, 08:21:48 PM »
Yards or Arshins?
The 8 inches difference between the two could really throw you off at that sort of distance :P

I don't really carry or use anything that old although I do have a Lee-Enfield No5 Mk1 jungle carbine.

-Josh

Probably Arshins. I dunno though, ain't gonna try at 900 yards  ;D   I gotta take her out and shoot it again sometime....gets tough though, after 2 shots she starts grouping ...uh...badly to say the least.


I have an old Colt 1903 that I'm going to eventually overhaul. It's only a .32 but I'll still carry it.

And one day I'm going to buy an Uberti S&W Nodel 3 in .44 Russian. And I'm going to carry that too. New gun, old design. Does that count? Reed's actually makes a 180 grain JHP defensive load for it. How awesome is that?  ;D

And before anyone says anything, yeah I know it's not that powerful. But I believe it has what it takes to do the job. Especially with a good JHP. If Reed's didn't offer it I'd probably load my own. Although LRN could save my bacon, I'd much rather have something that expands.

Hey I ain't gonna sya under-powered....Anything I don't wanna get shot with is just fine.  And anything starting  with .4...regardless of velocity...I don't care if the .455 webley or .44 russian aren't top of the line...they're still .40+ diameter. 
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2010, 08:31:32 PM »
#1 1895 Argentine Mauser, and my dad's 20 gauge bolt action Mossberg which dates to his USAF service keeping the Red Chinese Menace out of England and Ohio.

#2 & #3 Colt Agent. 
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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2010, 09:17:41 PM »
Probably Arshins. I dunno though, ain't gonna try at 900 yards  ;D   I gotta take her out and shoot it again sometime....gets tough though, after 2 shots she starts grouping ...uh...badly to say the least.


Given that it was made it 1943, it would not be in arshins.  Those are for the old school M1891s
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Re: Carrying "Old guns"
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2010, 10:25:04 PM »

Hey I ain't gonna sya under-powered....Anything I don't wanna get shot with is just fine.  And anything starting  with .4...regardless of velocity...I don't care if the .455 webley or .44 russian aren't top of the line...they're still .40+ diameter. 


That's my thought process as well. And I know this revolver ain't for everyone but I think it's beautiful!

To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen


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