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Author Topic: 6x45MM better than 5.56?  (Read 4836 times)

Harm

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6x45MM better than 5.56?
« on: January 27, 2010, 11:15:43 AM »
Quote
6×45mm makes a comeback
The 6x45mm SAW was an experimental round developed by the US Army in the 1970s.

Black Hills ammunition will be selling 6x45mm ammunition next month. Why is it being resurrected? It can be used in an AR-15 with no other changes than a new barrel and the round gives better ballistic performance than the 5.56mm NATO.

It uses standard .243 bullets (85 and 100 grain with 115 grain AP round being developed).

Sporting Products LLC will be distributing a range of uppers and compete rifles chambered in 6x45mm.

Pricing for the ammunition is not yet decided, but I was told it will cost around the same as match grade 5.56x45mm.

UPDATE: Commenters have pointed out that it cannot be the same case as the original 6x45mm SAW. They were not giving out ballistic info so I don't know if it matches the original ballistic performance of the SAW. They certainty mentioned the SAW when I was talking with them.


http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/21/6x45mm-makes-a-comeback/

The only thing I recall from the 6mm program was it was the origination of the SAW.  I don't know anything about the ballistics available for something like this.  Anyone know anymore? 
ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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only1asterisk

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2010, 11:48:31 AM »
The article is a little misleading. 
The SAW cartridge wasn't just a necked up 5.56.  The case is actually closer in diameter to the 6.8 SPC.

High Standard or somebody was trying to enter the AR market using 6x45 as their gimmick.  Didn't work so well.  Still see adds for these uppers in the SGN.

Really nice little round.  Easier on the barrel than 5.56.  Light 6mm varmint bullets really move and improved performance on deer sized game is possible without premium bullets.   OAL becomes an issue with the AR15 magazine and bullets with longer ogives.




only1asterisk

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2010, 12:53:46 AM »
It was High Standard.  
They list a complete 20" 6x45 upper with A1 profile barrel for $495.  Combined with a Cav Arms lower that would make a nice lightweight deer rifle for my wife or little girl.  I think the 90 grain Speer at 2700 would get it done.

Requested 6x45 Data:

60 GR. SIE HP      Hodgdon      BL-C(2)      .243"      2.260"      28.0      2925      41,500 CUP      30.0      3156      50,000 CUP               
60 GR. SIE HP     Hodgdon     H335     .243"     2.260"     25.5     2958     44,500 CUP     27.5     3160     47,500 CUP          
60 GR. SIE HP     Hodgdon     H4895     .243"     2.260"     25.5     2872     40,000 CUP     27.5     3102     48,500 CUP          
60 GR. SIE HP     Hodgdon     H322     .243"     2.260"     23.0     2849     39,500 CUP     25.0     3097     47,000 CUP          
60 GR. SIE HP     Hodgdon     H4198     .243"     2.260"     19.5     2617     36,500 CUP     21.5     2956     50,000 CUP          
70 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     BL-C(2)     .243"     2.260"     27.5     2844     39,300 CUP     29.5     3038     48,500 CUP          
70 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     H335     .243"     2.260"     25.5     2845     45,000 CUP     27.5     3066     50,000 CUP          
70 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     H4895     .243"     2.260"     25.5     2809     44,000 CUP     27.5     3034     49,500 CUP          
70 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     H322     .243"     2.260"     23.0     2758     39,800 CUP     25.0     2985     47,500 CUP          
70 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     H4198     .243"     2.260"     19.0     2515     39,300 CUP     21.0     2773     50,000 CUP          
75 GR. HDY HP     Hodgdon     BL-C(2)     .243"     2.260"     27.0     2726     42,500 CUP     29.0     2832     47,000 CUP          
75 GR. HDY HP     Hodgdon     H335     .243"     2.260"     24.0     2660     39,300 CUP     26.0     2860     48,500 CUP          
75 GR. HDY HP     Hodgdon     H4895     .243"     2.260"     25.0     2704     39,300 CUP     27.0     2952     48,000 CUP          
75 GR. HDY HP     Hodgdon     H322     .243"     2.260"     23.0     2774     45,500 CUP     24.0     2860     47,500 CUP          
75 GR. HDY HP     Hodgdon     H4198     .243"     2.260"     18.5     2297     38,300 CUP     19.5     2480     49,000 CUP          
80 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     BL-C(2)     .243"     2.350"     25.5     2649     41,400 CUP     27.5     2846     49,000 CUP          
80 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H335     .243"     2.350"     24.0     2656     42,000 CUP     26.0     2862     49,500 CUP          
80 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H4895     .243"     2.350"     25.0     2689     40,900 CUP     27.0     2904     48,500 CUP          
80 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H322     .243"     2.350"     21.5     2503     37,600 CUP     23.5     2783     47,500 CUP          
80 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H4198     .243"     2.350"     17.5     2286     40,400 CUP     19.0     2440     47,000 CUP          
85 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     BL-C(2)     .243"     2.350"     25.5     2566     42,000 CUP     27.5     2811     49,500 CUP          
85 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H335     .243"     2.350"     23.5     2587     40,000 CUP     25.5     2818     49,500 CUP          
85 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H4895     .243"     2.350"     24.0     2559     39,300 CUP     26.0     2786     49,000 CUP          
85 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H322     .243"     2.350"     21.5     2480     41,500 CUP     23.5     2695     49,000 CUP          
85 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H4198     .243"     2.350"     17.5     2230     41,000 CUP     19.0     2440     48,000 CUP          
90 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     BL-C(2)     .243"     2.350"     25.0     2523     41,000 CUP     27.0     2744     50,000 CUP          
90 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H335     .243"     2.350"     22.5     2442     40,900 CUP     25.0     2731     49,500 CUP          
90 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H4895     .243"     2.350"     23.5     2509     41,500 CUP     25.5     2721     50,000 CUP          
90 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H322     .243"     2.350"     20.5     2391     41,000 CUP     22.5     2531     49,500 CUP          
90 GR. SPR SP     Hodgdon     H4198     .243"     2.350"     17.5     2189     41,500 CUP     19.0     2350     49,000 CUP          
100 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     H414     .243"     2.340"     26.0     2310     39,300 CUP     28.0     2484     43,500 CUP          
100 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     H380     .243"     2.340"     26.0     2397     41,000 CUP     28.0     2506     47,000 CUP          
100 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     BL-C(2)     .243"     2.340"     24.5     2404     43,000 CUP     26.5     2619     50,000 CUP          
100 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     H335     .243"     2.340"     21.5     2305     44,000 CUP     23.0     2443     50,000 CUP          
100 GR. HDY SP     Hodgdon     H4895     .243"     2.340"     22.0     2414     42,000 CUP     24.0     2616     50,000 CUP

Need more I have a couple of Handloader articles I could pull stuff from.

only1asterisk

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2010, 01:19:00 AM »
The Black Hills loads seem to be 100 grains @ 2600 and 85 @ 2700.
CorBon is loading several different loads but their new website format really sucks.
High Standard has a couple loads being made for them.

Seems like a good year for this old wildcat.

Harm

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 05:40:58 PM »
Agreed!  This might be a great way to make a dedicated AR deer upper
ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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Into the last good fight I'll ever know
Live and die on this day
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only1asterisk

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2010, 12:44:48 AM »
Agreed!  This might be a great way to make a dedicated AR deer upper

Thing is, I spend another $50-75 and I can get a 6.8SPC or 6.5  :censored upper.  I already have 6.8 dies.  6x45 dies are about $70.  Money wise I come out even or a bit ahead with a cheap 6.8 upper.


AR lover

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 10:41:02 PM »
Really nice little round.  Easier on the barrel than 5.56.  Light 6mm varmint bullets really move and improved performance on deer sized game is possible without premium bullets.   OAL becomes an issue with the AR15 magazine and bullets with longer ogives.
That pretty much sums it up.  There's a guy on some forum who did a 41.5mm case length, so he could seat the longer bullets, but kept almost the exact same performance.   (Nolo who used to come around here had a similar concept)  I would personally be more interested in that one.


Grant

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2010, 11:15:03 AM »
 why did 6.5 --- get censored?
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

Harm

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2010, 11:35:59 AM »
Alexander Arms is run buy A-holes!
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only1asterisk

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 03:08:05 PM »
why did 6.5 --- get censored?

Because whatever 6.5 I may buy will not come from AA.  It may be compatible with some of their offerings (or maybe not). 
Otherwise, what Harm said.

only1asterisk

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 03:21:45 PM »
That pretty much sums it up.  There's a guy on some forum who did a 41.5mm case length, so he could seat the longer bullets, but kept almost the exact same performance.   (Nolo who used to come around here had a similar concept)  I would personally be more interested in that one.

6mm-222 is another option that buys you some wiggle room in the magazine.  Several variations of the 6-6.8 will as well.

Honestly, how good or bad a cartridge is depends entirely on what you plan to do with the rifle.   I don't think there are many bad cartridges, just bad combinations.

AR lover

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 11:29:43 PM »
Because whatever 6.5 I may buy will not come from AA.  It may be compatible with some of their offerings (or maybe not). 
Otherwise, what Harm said.

Les Baer Custom is doing that, they are calling it ".264 LBC", I think it is exactly the same as 6.5G...G&A article about it.

only1asterisk

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Re: 6x45MM better than 5.56?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2010, 11:31:57 PM »
Les Baer Custom is doing that, they are calling it ".264 LBC", I think it is exactly the same as 6.5G...G&A article about it.

Others too.  Dealing with Alexander Arms must be just too much to stomach.


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