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Author Topic: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"  (Read 9180 times)

HiVelSword

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.50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« on: May 05, 2010, 10:16:17 AM »
Guys. Help me out here.

About the only big game stick that can tango with the .50 BMG muzzle energy-wise is the 700 Nitro. The .577 T-rex and the .585 Nyati give roughly 10k and even the .600 Nitro is left wanting (if one could call it that with a straight face). I've read others state that all a .50 BMG will do if it "passes through the meat" will be to leave a .50" wide path. That's it. Their position is that many people have survived hits from a BMG. I'm not disagreeing but I believe those that have are missing an arm or a leg.

This is going to sound a bit gruesome but what if someone got hit in the arm with a .50 BMG but it just barely missed the bone by a hair? I understand that all 11k to 14k of muzzle energy per square inch isn't being dumped. Heck, probably just a samll fraction of it. But I've always thought that whatever energy transfer there is is enough to completely render the apendage useless ie; they will have to amputate due to too much missing "meat".

No, I do not believe that it could rip people in half with one shot. That would probably take 100% energy transfer which is pretty much impossible. Humans just don't make good bullet stops when it comes to the .50 BMG.

So gang, what say you?
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Khorne

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2010, 11:17:02 AM »
Actually, a .50 cal can rip someone in half, I've seen it. :shrug  I've also seen someone who had survived a direct hit from a .50, but he was in a permanent coma and missing most of his intestines. To answer your question, I believe a flesh wound is possible but I haven't seen it first hand so it's only guessing on my part.
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only1asterisk

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 11:19:51 AM »
Every wound is different.  A hit from a ball round at close range is going to be vastly different from a round of AP at 1000m.

HiVelSword

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 11:29:18 AM »
Actually, a .50 cal can rip someone in half, I've seen it. :shrug  I've also seen someone who had survived a direct hit from a .50, but he was in a permanent coma and missing most of his intestines. To answer your question, I believe a flesh wound is possible but I haven't seen it first hand so it's only guessing on my part.

Okay. If you say it then I believe it. That's pretty brutal.

So I guess the half inch "ice pick" theory is in the crapper. At least from close to medium range.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

HiVelSword

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 11:31:57 AM »
Every wound is different.  A hit from a ball round at close range is going to be vastly different from a round of AP at 1000m.

Yeah, I was thinking close to medium range. I should have mentioned that in my initial post.

At 3,000+ feet it's definitely not going to be as messy.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 11:36:05 AM »
Sorry HiVel a .50bmg round is not going to "just" punch a .50 caliber hole in someone.  You get a "Temporary cavity" that stretches the crap out of the tissue.  The only way I could see someone "walking away" from a .50bmg hit is if it just barely grazes them.  But then I wouldn't really call it a "hit."


Khorne, I'm sorry you had to see that.  There are some things I don't think anyone should have to see.
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HiVelSword

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 11:40:20 AM »
Sorry HiVel a .50bmg round is not going to "just" punch a .50 caliber hole in someone.  You get a "Temporary cavity" that stretches the crap out of the tissue.  The only way I could see someone "walking away" from a .50bmg hit is if it just barely grazes them.  But then I wouldn't really call it a "hit."


Khorne, I'm sorry you had to see that.  There are some things I don't think anyone should have to see.


No need to apologize. As that's what I always believed.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen


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Khorne

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 11:56:28 AM »
I can't tell you the ranges these people were hit because I saw it after the fact though I believe it was within 100 yards.  After the battle of Abu Garhraib http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Abu_Ghraib  where we had .50 cals in the towers.  Afterwards we only found only parts of people. Let's say I was impressed by the lethality of the .50
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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 12:57:01 PM »
^^^^^

What he said.  A high velocity rifle round, especially a .50 Browning, doesn't just poke a hole in a person for the same reason thowing a rock in a pond doesn't just make a rock-shaped hole in the water.  It makes a big splash, depending on a number of factors (shape, angle, velocity, mass, etc.).  When that big splash is your insides, you're having a bad day.

Kinetic energy can cause significant wounding in of itself, if it's applied correctly.
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Splodge Of Doom

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 01:19:15 PM »
Imagine being hit anywhere with a Raufoss round.

...

Eeeeeeewww.....

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 01:31:50 PM »
Charlie Beckwith, the founder of Delta, was hit in the stomach with a .50 caliber during an air operation in Vietnam and survived.
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HiVelSword

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 01:46:55 PM »
Charlie Beckwith, the founder of Delta, was hit in the stomach with a .50 caliber during an air operation in Vietnam and survived.

How far away was the MG? What did the bullet pass through before hitting him? Was it deflected before it hit him?

I have a feeling that the answers to those questions would make him look less like Clark Kent.

To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 02:51:45 PM »
One of the biggest things about the .50 Cal is that it doesn't really punch through soft tissue, as it spawls. The standard bullet weight if i remember correctly is 692 grns. It's weight and the parabole that it creates from its rotation or spin caused by the rifling of the barrel, is actually quite large. It has a tendency to instantly rip and almost liquefies soft tissue and vaporizes bodily fluids.
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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 10:42:45 PM »
Charlie Beckwith, the founder of Delta, was hit in the stomach with a .50 caliber during an air operation in Vietnam and survived.
Yeah, I know a guy here in Vernal... Same thing.  He took a .50 cal round to the abs.  He has a scar that goes from below the belt up to the top of his chest.  A very long, wide, jagged and hideous scar.  But he did live.
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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 01:53:14 AM »
One VN vet I knew had a scar running from just below his belt line all the way up his back to his shoulder.  Ugly trough with stitching scars and such.  He was bent over running for cover in an ambush when a Russian 12.7 caught him in the buttocks and slid all the way up his back which scooped a big gouge out of his hide and managed to break some ribs and shoulder in the process.  He said the bullet never hit bone but broke them just from the shockwave.  Said he coulda kissed the little SOB who shot him since the wound sent him home.

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 12:54:53 PM »
How far away was the MG? What did the bullet pass through before hitting him? Was it deflected before it hit him?

I have a feeling that the answers to those questions would make him look less like Clark Kent.

From his book Delta Force pages 87-91.  It was a Russian .51 caliber round.  They were flying at treetop level due to fog.  He writes the round "came through" the helicopter before hitting him.  I don't know if it came through an open door or what.  It hit him in the abdomen and went through and through.  He passed out immediately.  He had to be flown out in a different helicopter because the one he was in was shot up too badly to fly.

He was opened up from the top of his chest to just above his penis.  He lost 21" of intestine and his gall bladder and took 23 pints of blood during his first surgery.  The surgeons didn't think he was going to make and weren't going to operate on him until he told the nurse, "Now lets get one thing straight here.  I ain't the average bear, and I didn't come here to pack it in"

Clark Kent?  Maybe not but he sure had the survivor's mindset. 

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 02:15:59 PM »


Clark Kent?  Maybe not but he sure had the survivor's mindset. 



And luck (both kinds).
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2010, 01:24:32 AM »
Actually, a .50 cal can rip someone in half, I've seen it. :shrug  I've also seen someone who had survived a direct hit from a .50, but he was in a permanent coma and missing most of his intestines. To answer your question, I believe a flesh wound is possible but I haven't seen it first hand so it's only guessing on my part.

Hey Khorne, did the other guys stationed at abu ghirab had 40mm's laying around? could the separate members be caused by HE rounds from the M203s?

From your posts I know you where a SAW gunner, I suppose your squad had grenadiers, and at least a DMR as well as the regular riflemen, am I correct?

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2010, 12:47:48 PM »
Hey Khorne, did the other guys stationed at abu ghirab had 40mm's laying around? could the separate members be caused by HE rounds from the M203s?

From your posts I know you where a SAW gunner, I suppose your squad had grenadiers, and at least a DMR as well as the regular riflemen, am I correct?

Most of the fighting was done from the .50's in the towers with a few excursions outside with small arms.  I know my sergent personally threw a handgrenade, but the carnage was done primarily with the ma duce.  We had 204's but they didn't issue us ammo for them.
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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2010, 03:34:27 PM »
Quote
We had 204's but they didn't issue us ammo for them.

I really don't get the logic behind doing that... ???

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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2010, 03:39:35 PM »
What's a 204?  :hide
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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2010, 04:57:48 PM »
I really don't get the logic behind doing that... ???

Pretty common practice actually. I can't tell you how many gadgets and gizmos we have on the Herk, taking up space and weight, that we never use or have fallen out of use. We even have features that we're banned from using.

It's cheaper to leave them installed and not use them than to take them off.
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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2010, 05:22:54 PM »
What's a 204?  :hide

Under-barrel 40mm grenade launcher.
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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2010, 05:36:32 PM »
I thought that was an M203...
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Re: .50 BMG "flesh wounds"
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2010, 05:45:05 PM »
I thought that was an M203...

Oh duh!  I feel dumb.  M203. (what an expert I am.) :facepalm 240 is a machine gun, 249 is the SAW. 
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