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Author Topic: "Fixed" ammunition  (Read 738 times)

kunkmiester

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"Fixed" ammunition
« on: April 22, 2017, 02:32:40 PM »
A quick look wasn't bringing up anything terribly useful to the question.

Fixed ammunition is generically defined as having the projectile as part of the cartridge.  Some artillery pieces with brass cases would fail the test because while the cartridge is brass, the shell is loaded separately  (not sure any like that are used these days, but they have been used).  This is slightly different than say bagged ammunition, or loose powder for a revolver.  Big question is the metal case.

So if you designed a gun that took a separate cartridge, say a .550 or .600 caliber that took the powder in a 12ga cartridge, would that be "fixed?"

More specifically I've had the thought for a breech loading potato cannon that used a hi- low cartridge like the 40mm grenade launcher.  I'd just keep the front face flat, so there's no way to attach a projectile.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 04:40:26 PM »
    Well, they used to load paper cartridges for muzzle loading small arms like the Remington revolvers and some of the rifles and muskets of that period but I don't know of any modern equivalent.   :hmm

    As far as the potato cannon - it sounds like a good way to end up with high speed mashed potatoes.    :cool
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    kunkmiester

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 05:29:05 PM »
    Krupp liked sliding block breeches, even for big guns.  Dora, the 80cm gun, had one, and this needed a metallic cartridge to seal the breech. The shell was loaded separately, they were too big to do otherwise, so it wasn't fixed.

    With a high- low cartridge like on a grenade launcher, you get the chance to regulate the barrel pressure, so a couple hundred psi where the potato stays intact would be reasonable.

    There could be some fun shenanigans you could do with a separate metal cartridge, especially if even a modern gun using one isn't legally a firearm and thus regulated.  It would send the crazies into a frenzy.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 05:45:46 PM »
    You lay awake nights thinking of this stuff, don't you?    :cool
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
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    kunkmiester

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 06:04:00 PM »
    Sometimes. :D >:D
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    MTK20

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 06:22:56 PM »
    Like this? Not sure I understand what you're after, but the Volcanic pistol had it's ammo all in one neat package. It's kind of unique in its design.

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    kunkmiester

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #6 on: April 22, 2017, 06:53:03 PM »
    I want the opposite.  Part of the definition of a firearm is fixed ammunition, with everything together.  Break it apart, even if its a modern design, is it still a "firearm?"  Key point would be certain ideas that would benefit from not being destructive devices.
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    Grant

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 11:15:16 PM »
    Like this? Not sure I understand what you're after, but the Volcanic pistol had it's ammo all in one neat package. It's kind of unique in its design.



    Basically he's asking if there's a work-around on the destructive devices clause for large caliber weaponry.

      Have a fixed shell, such as a reloading powder-only 12 gauge propel a muzzle loaded or pre-powder load-from-the-breach projectile.

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    coelacanth

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 12:40:44 AM »
    Wouldn't that fall under the classification of a "destructive device" ?   :hmm
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
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    Grant

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    Re: "Fixed" ammunition
    « Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 08:34:13 AM »
    Wouldn't that fall under the classification of a "destructive device" ?   :hmm

    I believe there's no way around the breach loading part, but I haven't read the fine print to know the details.   Maybe a powder cartridge with external ignition?

    Because muzzleloading cannons are exempt, I'm not sure if ALL forms of breach loading are "out".  I have a feeling they are since everyone pushes the limits of the law so I'd think we'd see it.
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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