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Author Topic: Scope School  (Read 26444 times)

FMJ

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Re: Scope School
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2009, 09:21:28 PM »
Outbreak, are you on active duty right now?
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #26 on: March 15, 2009, 09:51:54 PM »
    He is.
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    FMJ

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #27 on: March 15, 2009, 10:02:53 PM »
    In-country?
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    Outbreak

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #28 on: March 16, 2009, 05:40:11 AM »
    Active duty, yes. If you mean in the US, then yes. I'll be deploying soon.
    TexasOutbreak

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    FMJ

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #29 on: March 16, 2009, 12:33:53 PM »
    Good luck with that.
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    Tom The Impaler

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #30 on: March 23, 2009, 07:50:46 PM »
    You can learn a LOT about basic optics at astronomy websites. For instance,

    Resolution, the smallest detail you can see, is dependent on the objective diameter as much as the magnification. I can see a 22 baliber hole at 100 yards through my Meopta 3-12 X 50 at 12X, I haven't tried it at lower power. Mount Palomar doesn't list it's scopes by magnification, it lists them by objective diameter for this reason.

    Larger objective diameter also brings in more light and is thus better for dawn and dusk shooting. light transmission varies inversely with magnification. The image darkens as the magnification goes up. So if you're hunting dusk or dawn run the magnification to it's lowest setting.

    So a 20 X scope with a 32mm objective is a joke, if you want a high mag scope you need a large objective too or you're shooting in the dark.

    Until I bought a Meade ETX 90 Maksutov Cassegrain and studied astronomy I was really clueless about optics.

    http://www.meade.com/etx_premier/index.html

    Some people call the midwest the heartland, I prefer to think of it as the liver. Not too interesting, and easy to ignore until it quits working.

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #31 on: March 23, 2009, 08:24:54 PM »
    Quote
    Larger objective diameter also brings in more light and is thus better for dawn and dusk shooting.
    Oh man... here we go again!   This is true in theory.  If all other factors are equal... that's right.
    But don't take objective size as a determination of quality of light transmission.
    A bigger lens has the potential to transmit more light.  But we see quite often smaller yet higher quality glass have better clarity, brightness, and "resolution" than cheaper larger glass.
    If you don't believe me - just go look for yourself.  Look at a 50 mm Buckmaster and look at a 40 mm Zeiss.  You'll see the difference.
    The lens coatings play such a huge factor and this isn't something that you can just quantify. 
    You get what you pay for - this holds more true with optics than anything else.
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    Tom The Impaler

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #32 on: March 23, 2009, 08:30:24 PM »
    Oyvey! fair enough! I should have said "All other things being equal"!
    Some people call the midwest the heartland, I prefer to think of it as the liver. Not too interesting, and easy to ignore until it quits working.

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #33 on: March 23, 2009, 11:37:45 PM »
    LOL, no worries.
    The problem with the Optics industry is that it plays on the ignorant.  Because there is no way to quantify optical quality.  You can't just use a light meter, because that wont rate clarity.  Then there is other factors such as parallax and color transmission. 
    Now, Swarovski is easily the best glass you can buy when it comes to optical quality... those cats throw down coatings that actually focus and tune the colors that come through.  (HD series) I mean - come on!  That's some hard core optical science right there.
    Unfortunately I would not put one of those scopes on a gun heavier recoil than a .30-06 because Swarovski just isn't strong enough.
    Now theres another factory Recoil Tolerance or simply "Strength".  Without strength, your optical quality is useless.
    You could have a great clear scope - and it goes and craps the bed when you need it the most.  I've seen a lot of scopes do this... I remember we had 7 Swarovski's in one deer season at our location.  No, I'm not kidding.
    Sure, those scopes were all repaired under warranty, but that left those hunters scopeless for awhile.  Not cool during our short hunting seasons.
    Then there are features you might want, reticle patterns, turret styles, side or objective focus adjustment... main tube diameter... objective diameter... weight of the scope.  There really is no ONE scope that outshines all others... because your Mission and your Requirements are going to do be different. 
    So you guys have got to arm yourself with say, 5 requirements.  Now when you look at scope options, be ready to drop one or two requirements to find the right scope for your job and for your gun.   You can have a great scope - say, a Nikon Monarch 6.5 to 24 with a 50mm... great scope for the money.  But you want to put that on a CZ 527 Carbine?  Nope.   Great scope - but not a good match for the gun.  See what I mean?  Or for example, I like my 2-7x32mm Vortex Viper... great scope... but put it on a .300 RUM?  Nope.  Now let's swap those scopes on these rifles, and we have better fits for the rifle's missions. 

    I have to admit something there... I'm finding that I'm polarizing between two brands.  Nikon for the value, Zeiss for the top quality.  I'm also a HUGE believer in that Rapid Reticle system.   Be it from Zeiss or from PFI - or Swaro's BR reticle.  That is the way to go.  I don't even like using a standard plex anymore.
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    Tom The Impaler

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #34 on: March 24, 2009, 06:05:18 AM »
    You've brought up an issue I can't recall the reasons for.

    Tube diameter.

    why 1" or 30mm? does the extra diameter give you some rigidity? extra clicks of vertical/horizontal adjustment?
    Some people call the midwest the heartland, I prefer to think of it as the liver. Not too interesting, and easy to ignore until it quits working.

    Beamish

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #35 on: March 24, 2009, 09:06:10 AM »
    You've brought up an issue I can't recall the reasons for.

    Tube diameter.

    why 1" or 30mm? does the extra diameter give you some rigidity? extra clicks of vertical/horizontal adjustment?
    The same reason you have a larger objective: light transfer.  Imagine trying to look through a dinner plate sized objective lens with the tube body of a straw.

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #36 on: March 24, 2009, 09:57:31 AM »
    I'll get back to this tonight... no time to explain it in detail.  At work.
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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #37 on: March 24, 2009, 10:51:09 PM »
    You've brought up an issue I can't recall the reasons for.

    Tube diameter.

    why 1" or 30mm? does the extra diameter give you some rigidity? extra clicks of vertical/horizontal adjustment?
    Okay, real quick... One of the other things a fat tube does for you, especially with big objectives is that it helps keep the light from diffusing.  I don't know how else to explain that.  When you bend the light from a 50mm obj and force it to funnel it through a 1 inch tube - you get that brightness, but your working the light too hard and it diffuses.  A 30mm tube doesn't let the light diffuse as much.  What this variable works on is clarity. This allows you to have greater clarity.   To see this for yourself, take a look through the Leupold 4.5-14 VX-III with the 1 inch tube, and the same scope with the 30mm tube.  You will see that you have a better field of view, with sharper clarity. 
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    Beamish

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #38 on: March 24, 2009, 11:25:00 PM »
    Well, sure, if you wanna be all scientific about it.  I thought my straw and dinner plate metaphor worked well.   :neener

    (Role reversal anyone?)

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #39 on: March 25, 2009, 12:00:14 AM »
     :clap
    Well played, Sir.
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    Tom The Impaler

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #40 on: March 25, 2009, 12:18:00 PM »
    I poked myself in the eye with the straw, and it didn't magnify anything. ;D
    Some people call the midwest the heartland, I prefer to think of it as the liver. Not too interesting, and easy to ignore until it quits working.

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #41 on: March 25, 2009, 06:03:28 PM »
    I poked myself in the eye with the straw, and it didn't magnify anything. ;D
    Oh, you have a Bushnell scope?
    South CarolinaCo-Founder of WeTheArmed.com
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    Tom The Impaler

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #42 on: March 25, 2009, 06:18:58 PM »
    Ha Ha!

    Some people call the midwest the heartland, I prefer to think of it as the liver. Not too interesting, and easy to ignore until it quits working.

    Tom The Impaler

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #43 on: March 25, 2009, 06:20:17 PM »
    Oh, you have a Bushnell scope?


    Hey it's a tacticool Scope though.
    Some people call the midwest the heartland, I prefer to think of it as the liver. Not too interesting, and easy to ignore until it quits working.

    Outbreak

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #44 on: March 26, 2009, 02:47:18 PM »
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    FMJ

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #45 on: March 29, 2009, 02:25:31 AM »
    Due to all the information on this thread (about parallax, and tube diameter, etc.)  I'd like to nominate it for a sticky.  What do the mods think?
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    Thernlund

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #46 on: March 29, 2009, 05:53:15 AM »
    Done.


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    Mumbles

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #47 on: June 14, 2009, 09:36:10 PM »
    Quote
    why 1" or 30mm? does the extra diameter give you some rigidity? extra clicks of vertical/horizontal adjustment

    Quote
    The same reason you have a larger objective: light transfer.

    I don't want to say that is incorrect, but it is not completely correct.  Light might play a small role, but the primary reason for a thicker tube is greater erector travel.  Objective size and coatings are the primary factors in light.

    FMJ

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #48 on: June 23, 2009, 03:09:17 AM »
    How does scope mounting on a rifle work?

    Also, I notice that nowadays, there seems to be 1913 rails instead of scope mounts.  Are the rails more practical? Do they help the scope hold its point of aim?

    I'm sorry I constantly ask so many questions here on WTA, but what can I do?  I'm not going to go learn stuff from COD 4.  Not in the real world.
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    Mumbles

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    Re: Scope School
    « Reply #49 on: June 23, 2009, 03:36:01 AM »
    You mean what is the proper way to mount a scope?  I use feeler gauges like you would get in any car parts store, stick them between the flat on the turret housing and the rail as you tighten the ring caps down.


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