Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?  (Read 6991 times)

RMc

  • Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 1619

  • Offline
To use a phrase from the 1980's:  Heavy man, heavy.

 :o  ::)   :yawn   :doh   :hmm   :coffee   :shrug          >:D       :scrutiny   :panic

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/military/open-season-on-aerial-robots

 Does a citizen have the right to protect his family and property from potentially deadly govt. drones?
 How would you tell which drone is just invading your property from a killer drone?

 Why should American's even have to be concerned about the distinction?

 Would a jury convict in such a self-defense action?

                                                                :facepalm  :facepalm  :facepalm  :facepalm
Alabama

WeTheArmed.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    JesseL

    • Gun Mangler
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 12450

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 12:23:44 PM »
    If it were an armed drone that could possibly be a threat to you, you'd probably be dead before you ever knew it was there and it would be operating in airspace well above what could legally be considered 'yours'.
    Arizona

    xsquidgator

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1861

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 01:28:07 PM »
    If it were an armed drone that could possibly be a threat to you, you'd probably be dead before you ever knew it was there and it would be operating in airspace well above what could legally be considered 'yours'.

    Yes.  Good luck and all, but, from accounts I've read of Vietnam light aircraft flown by forward air controllers, even a Cessna-sized aircraft at 1000 feet or above is pretty much immune from small arms fire coming from the ground.  If a company of guys with full-auto AKs couldn't bring down a Cessna, you and I probably aren't going to bring down one of these things that's up who knows how high.  Not even with our black rifles.

    Khorne

    • Professor of History
    • Staff Member Emeritus
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5790
    • * In Fond Memory *
      • Minimum Wage Historian

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 01:47:39 PM »
    I've seen drones in Iraq.  They are very hard to spot and very quiet.  Unless you had a stinger missile or AA gun, don't even try. I'm not that good and I don't have that much ammo to even try to hit one.
    UtahIt doesn't cost me to be nice, but nothing gets you nothing and everything's got a little price.
    Check out my history blog at Minimum Wage Historian!
    http://minimumwagehistorian.com/

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6338
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Online
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 01:57:07 PM »
    Folk hero?  No.  Federal prisoner?  Yes.



    Kaso
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
    20 January 2017, 12:01pm
    Here's to a great four years!

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1619

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #5 on: May 19, 2012, 02:03:52 PM »
     Notice this is about public (and jury) reaction to such an event - however implausible the success of such an action. 

     Indeed - the replies (so far) indicate total defeatism in the face of this threat.  Indeed a threat authorized by Presidential Executive Order.
    Alabama

    Doug Wojtowicz

    • Clown prince
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 8521
    • Fly like the wind!

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #6 on: May 19, 2012, 04:34:12 PM »
    Notice this is about public (and jury) reaction to such an event - however implausible the success of such an action. 

     Indeed - the replies (so far) indicate total defeatism in the face of this threat.  Indeed a threat authorized by Presidential Executive Order.

     :facepalm You honestly think that a sitting President is gonna try this crap and not immediately get impeached or start Civil War 2: This Time It's Personal? 
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11464
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #7 on: May 19, 2012, 04:51:50 PM »
    If it were an armed drone that could possibly be a threat to you, you'd probably be dead before you ever knew it was there.

    From the videos I've seen, the targets usually hear the missile coming 1-2 seconds out and manage to run about half the lethal blast radius before impact.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    Gunnguy

    • Husband, Father, US Air Force Veteran, Scouter, Hunter, Geek, Gamer, PITA (Pain in the A$$), and future comedy star.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4514
    • You did what with what?

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #8 on: May 19, 2012, 05:45:23 PM »
     :shocked


     :facepalm
    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1619

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #9 on: May 19, 2012, 08:16:15 PM »
    Notice this is about public (and jury) reaction to such an event - however implausible the success of such an action. 

     Indeed - the replies (so far) indicate total defeatism in the face of this threat.  Indeed a threat authorized by Presidential Executive Order.

    Yes from a practical standpoint, no citizen could stand against an armed drone attack.

    No affront to any here was intended.
     
    If such a horror should come to any in this nation, I pray the people of this land in their righteous indignation; will be able to deal with the perpetrator(s), regardless of rank or office, through the power of the jury and the ballot box. 
    « Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 08:41:38 PM by RMc »
    Alabama

    xsquidgator

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1861

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #10 on: May 19, 2012, 09:02:10 PM »
    Notice this is about public (and jury) reaction to such an event - however implausible the success of such an action. 

     Indeed - the replies (so far) indicate total defeatism in the face of this threat.  Indeed a threat authorized by Presidential Executive Order.

    If you want to feel better about this kind of thing, read Unintended Consequences and think about that instead.    If you knew who the guys were operating the drones, or who gave the order for the drones to go out and blow up people, well, even those people have to go to the bathroom or to the deli or wherever sometime.

    JesseL

    • Gun Mangler
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 12450

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 12:25:51 AM »
    Drones are really a red herring in what to be concerned about here.

    If you're concerned that the government would start wantonly murdering citizens, the tool they use to do it is hardly the root issue. Same goes for concerns about widespread surveillance.
    Arizona

    Feud

    • Teller of bad jokes.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4986

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #12 on: May 20, 2012, 01:18:24 AM »
    I don't imagine that a person shooting and hitting a flying drone would have near the social and political impact as someone who shoots, misses, and hits someone accidentally when the bullet falls back down.


    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11464
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #13 on: May 20, 2012, 03:27:26 AM »
    Drones are really a red herring in what to be concerned about here.

    If you're concerned that the government would start wantonly murdering citizens, the tool they use to do it is hardly the root issue. Same goes for concerns about widespread surveillance.

    Bingo.

    I've thought a great deal about this. I'm cross training to fly these things, and I intend to ask very pointed questions of my instructors about certain strikes that have made the news. And that's just on the military, overseas side of things. I'm quite concerned about the ethical side of how we might deal with domestic operations of these aircraft.

    I thought a lot about posse comitatus when just flying trash haulers, but it's potentially more pertinent in my new job.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    RevDisk

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 2790
      • RevDisk dot Net

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #14 on: May 20, 2012, 04:02:58 PM »
    Yes from a practical standpoint, no citizen could stand against an armed drone attack.

    No affront to any here was intended.

    *gigglesnort*

    No mere citizen, perhaps. But a proper citizen engineer?  Sure, not that hard.  Either passive SigInt, LIDAR or radar and counterbattery. Drones ain't the most rugged thing. Heck, you isolate and jam the weapons authorization, it's not going to launch at you.  Hell, with enough alcohol, some folks in my phone's contact list and a fab shop, you could make a cruise missile to take out the control systems.  Or shoot the drone operator in the ear while he's taking a leak at the nearby bar. Or tell him his family is food for the wood chipper if he doesn't launch the missile into the nearest church/mosque/orphanage/opposition for propaganda purposes instead of the proper target.

    Heck, Outbreak, (and don't answer this) what would you say if you were ordered to kill American enemy combatants, and someone told you if you did, your family would be slaughtered. BUT, if you happened to hit the MSNBC office "by accident" (which they knew you disliked anyways, from their inside sources), they'd leave you, your family, etc alone.

    Anything that can be made by engineers can be defeated by engineers. Don't ever forget that.
     

    Mind you, we can, have and will continue to kill Americans with drones. It's not new. At the moment, they happen to be Americans that are (allegedly) not nice folks.  But we haven't given them due process or whatnot. 

    http://www.npr.org/2012/03/06/148000630/holder-gives-rationale-for-drone-strikes-on-citizens

    So, there you go. DoJ opinion is the POTUS can kill Americans, if he believes they are enemies of the state. They're careful to state that it is only "abroad", but also careful to state that "Our legal authority is not limited to the battlefields in Afghanistan."
    To know the darkness is to love the light,
    to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
    - Book of Counted Sorrows

    RD dot Net

    Precious Roy

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 2634

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #15 on: May 20, 2012, 04:13:58 PM »
    I'm quite concerned about the ethical side of how we might deal with domestic operations of these aircraft.

    I thought a lot about posse comitatus when just flying trash haulers, but it's potentially more pertinent in my new job.

    A good start would be just to prohibit any of the data from their sensor packages from being transferred to any domestic law enforcement or other government agency at any level and to bar any of that sort of data obtained during domestic use from ever being used in a US court of law.  Basically only let them be used for training purposes in current designated MOAs as has been done for manned aircraft previously.  The military can feel free use my house as an aim point when they're training with litening and sniper pods on F-16s or for training with new drones but they can't tell local code enforcement about the pool in my backyard or tell law enforcement about the pot grow in my neighbor's backyard or the cockfighting ring in the backyard of the house across the street.  I don't care if they captured pictures of bin laden and carlos the jackal sunbathing nude in a suburban back yard in Tallahassee - no use whatsoever for domestic purposes.  None.

    The military and civilian police have become far too chummy in the past 30 years or so and it needs to be stomped on and kicked back into the separate realms they belong in.  The civilian police have become far too militarized and military has become far too police oriented.  That line between the two needs to reestablished before it's too late.  Our founders abhorred the idea of a standing army for good reason.  While the technology of modern war requires that a standing army exist, it must be on an extremely short leash when it comes to it operating domestically no matter how benign those operations may seem at the moment.  Likewise our civilian police must remain/return to being peace officers.  To many observers our police are looking less like peace officers and more like a standing army or worse.
    If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.

    sarge712

    • WTA LEO
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5783
    • Just a teddy bear fulla luv, bub

    • Offline
    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

    Gunnguy

    • Husband, Father, US Air Force Veteran, Scouter, Hunter, Geek, Gamer, PITA (Pain in the A$$), and future comedy star.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4514
    • You did what with what?

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #17 on: May 20, 2012, 06:04:39 PM »
    This still reminds me about the Camel nose and the tent...

     :hmm
    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    Deathrider1579

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1636

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #18 on: May 20, 2012, 10:28:57 PM »
    I just am seriously uncomfortable with anything that helps make LE or .mil types think of the US population as a hostile combatant force like those in A-stan or Iraq.

    SERIOUS Heebee-Jeebees
    "If we don't fight as radicals for our liberty, eventually we will have none."-sqlbullet
    "The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." -Yeats

    Gunnguy

    • Husband, Father, US Air Force Veteran, Scouter, Hunter, Geek, Gamer, PITA (Pain in the A$$), and future comedy star.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4514
    • You did what with what?

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #19 on: May 20, 2012, 10:37:01 PM »
    I just am seriously uncomfortable with anything that helps make LE or .mil types think of the US population as a hostile combatant force like those in A-stan or Iraq.

    SERIOUS Heebee-Jeebees

    Don't be silly!
    Now go eat your Soma ice cream and read some nice literature on how to be a good C- Idiot.

     :P
    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    Doug Wojtowicz

    • Clown prince
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 8521
    • Fly like the wind!

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #20 on: May 21, 2012, 11:57:08 AM »
    I just am seriously uncomfortable with anything that helps make LE [snip] types think of the US population as a hostile combatant force like those in A-stan or Iraq.

    You mean, aside from the normal anymosity between the population (usually lead by Jesse Jackass or Al Shark-by-the-ton) and the police?
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    huey148

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 2789
      • Huey's Gunsight

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #21 on: May 21, 2012, 12:45:01 PM »
    From the videos I've seen, the targets usually hear the missile coming 1-2 seconds out and manage to run about half the lethal blast radius before impact.

    Seeing how hellfires are supersonic, those guys either have really good ears or really fast feet.... ;)

    Again, if the taliban with quad 12.7mm's can't bring those down I doubt any yahoo with a semi 5.56 is going to have anything other than an lottery strike chance at getting one...

    As far as the discourse of a roles of the military and police being intertwined so much...I think that is more closely related to the ability and willingness of the citizenry themselves to be be "naughty"...remember that the US Army provided much of the peace keeping in the new territories before and after the civil war...and the use of "federal" troops as opposed to the National Guard in domestic use is more or less a moot point from what they are being asked to do...feel better if a NG troop is on your street to restore order as opposed to a AD troop if it suits you...the level of training and equipment is more even now than in any time in the past thanks to 10 years of constant mobilization in the RC...

    on another note...I cannot see how these things would be any more obtrusive than the PD helos we already have all over the country...and I have yet to see a thread about bringing those down...



    Man, I liked that movie too....

    I agree that there must be (and probably will be) some constitutional ruling on exactly what type of evidence or surveillance may be conducted and its use....spying pot plants growing in a field in plain view would be acceptable but randomly surveying homes with thermal or other imaging systems without a warrant is prohibited.
    Huey's Gunsight  http://www.hueysgunsight.blogspot.com

    "I don't know about you guys, but I got a woody..how 'bout you SFC Hopewell"

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11464
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 01:19:20 PM »
    Seeing how hellfires are supersonic, those guys either have really good ears or really fast feet.... ;)

    The speed is not constant.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    aikorob

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1219

    • Offline
    GeorgiaFrom The Codex Kalachnikova: "He who would have you surrender your arms does so because he wishes to do something you could prevent by their usage."

    GeorgeHill

    • Co-Founder
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 21854
    • The Ogre
      • MadOgre.com

    • Offline
    Re: Will the first citizen to shoot down a Drone...be a folk hero?
    « Reply #24 on: July 20, 2013, 08:54:29 AM »
    If you want to hunt drones, you gotta find the Trailer they are opperating from.

    Sent from my Galaxy S7i using Tapatalk 9.

    South CarolinaCo-Founder of WeTheArmed.com
    The Ogre from MadOgre.com.

    Vires et Honestas
    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
    http://www.madogre.com/

    Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.