Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights  (Read 620 times)

Fenderbassist

  • Old School
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 270
  • GNU Linux, Music. Comedy, Movies, Books, Radio
    • Funny 1260 AM Comedy Radio!

  • Offline
Found this to be quite interesting.

http://www.hardylaw.net/historiography.html
ArizonaGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind. - William Shakespeare

Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams

WeTheArmed.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    coelacanth

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7138
    • eccentric orbit

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 07:21:30 PM »
    Long, but well researched and footnoted.   Interesting how the basic philosophical ideas that underpin our society have not changed in any meaningful way since our founding.   :coffee
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    Plebian

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 2029

    • Online
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 01:33:41 AM »
    Long, but well researched and footnoted.   Interesting how the basic philosophical ideas that underpin our society have not changed in any meaningful way since our founding.   :coffee

    Liberal democratic republic ideals have not changed much since our countries birth. The main ideas were laid down in the enlightenment period, and we have not strayed too far from those overall. 

    One could make a strong argument most of western society is running on the same ideals. They just tend to vary on the details.

    I think that is why the US and the Europeans love to hate each other. We agree on most of the foundations. So we argue with vigor on the minor details. It IS the western society's 9mm vs 45 debate. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Fenderbassist

    • Old School
    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 270
    • GNU Linux, Music. Comedy, Movies, Books, Radio
      • Funny 1260 AM Comedy Radio!

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #3 on: November 23, 2016, 07:43:25 AM »
    Liberal democratic republic ideals have not changed much since our countries birth. The main ideas were laid down in the enlightenment period, and we have not strayed too far from those overall. 

    One could make a strong argument most of western society is running on the same ideals. They just tend to vary on the details.

    I think that is why the US and the Europeans love to hate each other. We agree on most of the foundations. So we argue with vigor on the minor details. It IS the western society's 9mm vs 45 debate.

    Would that make the Socialist societies the 10mm / 40 S&W / .357 Sig?   :rotfl
    ArizonaGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

    Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind. - William Shakespeare

    Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams

    sqlbullet

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1202

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #4 on: November 23, 2016, 09:34:12 AM »
    Would that make the Socialist societies the 10mm / 40 S&W / .357 Sig?   :rotfl

    Clearly not.  The 10mm IS the solution.

    The 357 sig is a 38 super with less mag capacity, and a 40 S&W is just an un-needed downgrade to the one true cartridge. >:D :neener
    Utah

    MTK20

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5340
    • Mind of a philosopher, mouth of a sailor.

    • Online
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #5 on: November 23, 2016, 10:08:27 AM »
    Clearly not.  The 10mm IS the solution.

    The 357 sig is a 38 super with less mag capacity, and a 40 S&W is just an un-needed downgrade to the one true cartridge. >:D :neener

    Hear here!

    10mm. The only legitimate reason to own/shoot a semi auto over a revolver  ;).
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Fenderbassist

    • Old School
    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 270
    • GNU Linux, Music. Comedy, Movies, Books, Radio
      • Funny 1260 AM Comedy Radio!

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #6 on: November 23, 2016, 11:48:54 AM »
    Clearly not.  The 10mm IS the solution.

    The 357 sig is a 38 super with less mag capacity, and a 40 S&W is just an un-needed downgrade to the one true cartridge. >:D :neener

    So then, if I may query (nyuk nyuk), what you're trying to say is that the Utopian Dream is the 10mm, the Dystopian Hegemony is the .40S&W and the Authoritarian Regime is the .357Sig?
    ArizonaGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

    Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind. - William Shakespeare

    Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams

    Fenderbassist

    • Old School
    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 270
    • GNU Linux, Music. Comedy, Movies, Books, Radio
      • Funny 1260 AM Comedy Radio!

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #7 on: November 23, 2016, 11:50:34 AM »
    Hear here!

    10mm. The only legitimate reason to own/shoot a semi auto over a revolver  ;).

    So then, of the two Utopian Dreams (the revolver and the 10mm semi auto), which one comes with fries?
    ArizonaGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

    Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind. - William Shakespeare

    Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1619

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #8 on: November 24, 2016, 05:33:33 AM »
    Whether a 19th century Winchester "73 in .38WCF or a Glock 10mm pistol in the 21st century - both guns strike the same blow.

    Alabama

    Fenderbassist

    • Old School
    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 270
    • GNU Linux, Music. Comedy, Movies, Books, Radio
      • Funny 1260 AM Comedy Radio!

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #9 on: November 24, 2016, 12:37:30 PM »
    Whether a 19th century Winchester "73 in .38WCF or a Glock 10mm pistol in the 21st century - both guns strike the same blow.

    Yeah, that I didn't get fries...
    ArizonaGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

    Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind. - William Shakespeare

    Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams

    Fenderbassist

    • Old School
    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 270
    • GNU Linux, Music. Comedy, Movies, Books, Radio
      • Funny 1260 AM Comedy Radio!

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #10 on: November 24, 2016, 12:41:12 PM »
    Whether a 19th century Winchester "73 in .38WCF or a Glock 10mm pistol in the 21st century - both guns strike the same blow.

    Oh thank you for reminding me, I need to go back to a favorite tribute page (Dark Canyon http://www.darkcanyon.net/) and grab some old gun articles.

    Example
    http://www.darkcanyon.net/They_Were_Good_But.htm

    Skeeter Skelton
    http://www.darkcanyon.net/skeeter_skelton.htm

    Elmer Keith
    http://www.darkcanyon.net/elmer_keith.htm

    Tales of the Old West
    http://www.darkcanyon.net/tales_of_the_old_west.html
    ArizonaGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

    Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind. - William Shakespeare

    Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams

    coelacanth

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7138
    • eccentric orbit

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #11 on: November 24, 2016, 11:31:03 PM »
    Hear here!

    10mm. The only legitimate reason to own/shoot a semi auto over a revolver  ;).
    I'll take one of each.  Same caliber please.  Magazines for my autoloader and moon clips for my revolver, thanks.   :cool   
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    MTK20

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5340
    • Mind of a philosopher, mouth of a sailor.

    • Online
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #12 on: November 24, 2016, 11:38:14 PM »
    I'll take one of each.  Same caliber please.  Magazines for my autoloader and moon clips for my revolver, thanks.   :cool

    Pretty certain if you have a revolver in 10mm you're already one of the coolest people I know  ;).

    I'm lucky enough to even have a 1911 in 10mm. Well, maybe not mine, but I claim it as my own  :neener.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7138
    • eccentric orbit

    • Offline
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #13 on: November 24, 2016, 11:47:40 PM »
    I don't.  Yet.  I'm waiting on Ruger to wake up and smell the coffee and give us a GP 100 6" barrel in 10mm , cut for full moon clips.  Barring that I'll just have go the long, expensive way 'round and let David Clements build one for me. 

    One of those and a Dan Wesson Bruin with the 6" barrel would make quite the pair, no? 

    Having achieved that level of "Oh yeah . . ." would leave me more time to read fascinating articles like the OP instead of haunting gun shops and internet gun boards.     
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    MTK20

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5340
    • Mind of a philosopher, mouth of a sailor.

    • Online
    Re: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights
    « Reply #14 on: November 25, 2016, 12:03:13 AM »
    I don't.  Yet.  I'm waiting on Ruger to wake up and smell the coffee and give us a GP 100 6" barrel in 10mm , cut for full moon clips.  Barring that I'll just have go the long, expensive way 'round and let David Clements build one for me. 

    One of those and a Dan Wesson Bruin with the 6" barrel would make quite the pair, no? 

    Having achieved that level of "Oh yeah . . ." would leave me more time to read fascinating articles like the OP instead of haunting gun shops and internet gun boards.   

    SLM has a neat set up with his Smith and Wesson model 310. Scandium, 10 mm, and XS night sights are all pretty darn cool.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.