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Author Topic: Sheriffs versus Feds  (Read 803 times)

scarville

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Sheriffs versus Feds
« on: January 25, 2013, 05:32:22 PM »
From the Salt Lake Tribune

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55677972-82/law-constitution-federal-gun.html.csp

Quote
Assault weapons that can fire numerous times in seconds are designed for only one thing: killing large numbers of people. The military and law enforcement officers need that ability; ordinary law-abiding citizens do not. Background checks are the first line of defense against weapons falling into the hands of people who should not have them. The law now allows most anyone to buy a gun at a gun show.


The police need the ability to kill large numbers of people?  What the hell are they putting in the water over there?
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LoneStarNational

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Re: Sheriffs versus Feds
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2013, 05:41:29 PM »
That's fluffed up.
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goatroper

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Re: Sheriffs versus Feds
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 06:12:58 PM »
Makes one wonder if that's simple ignorance or wishful thinking.
VirginiaGoatroper

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Re: Sheriffs versus Feds
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2013, 06:39:22 PM »
The most effective argument in favor of "assault weapons" for normal people, I have found, is the fence-sitter's willingness to believe that cops should have them. Sure, the hardcore antis don't believe it, but I don't care. I'm not able to convince them, so I don't care what they think. I'm after the fence-sitters, who are willing to be persuaded.

The logic is obvious to us, but you need to spell it out for people that haven't thought about gun control much before.

Why do cops need AR15s and high-capacity mags? Well, because they face threats on the job that require those capabilities.

OK, just the SWAT cops? Or do the officers that respond immediately to emergencies need them, too? Oh, obviously every cop needs that capability. Newtown or Columbine could happen anywhere, anytime. (Ignore for the moment that neither of those events were successfully addressed by cops with "assault weapons", since the general belief is true even if the specifics are wrong)

Ok, how do the cops know something like that is going on? Well, someone calls them, of course.

So, this person, who witnessed the event and called for help, is dealing with it himself until the cops show up? Well, yeah.

And the response time for the cops is what? Well, it varies.

Varies from what to what? Uh, I dunno.

I'll help you out. Aurora was about 90 seconds. Newtown was about 11 minutes. So, the police, who will be responding with their assault weapons and bringing with them all of their friends with assault weapons, need assault weapons...but the poor guy stuck there in the crappy situation, alone, for 11 minutes, should only have 10 rounds to address the threat?

There's obviously some secondary arguments to make out if this, but pressing that line of attack usually gets heads nodding. Follow it up with reminders that bad guys planning to commit robberies, murder or massacres can just carry lots of mags with them, while Joey Bagadoughnuts probably has his on board mag and maybe a spare, so mag capacity restrictions affect the good guys more than the bad.

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coelacanth

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Re: Sheriffs versus Feds
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 09:31:50 PM »
Exactly the points I have been making.  To exactly the same group of people.  I also point out that home invasion type robberies usually involve more than one assailant and restricting my wife to an inferior weapon of limited capacity doesn't aid anyone but the criminals.  She needs to be able to respond with overwhelming force because she will likely be outnumbered and physically incapable of overcoming even one assailant, let alone several.   Restricting my wife's ability to respond with adequate force makes no one safer but the criminals.

Anecdotal point of interest:  Twice in the last fifteen years my wife has had to arm herself in order to respond to immediate threats.   Once to an
                                          attempted home invasion in broad daylight.  Tempe police responded to the 911 call she made from the bedroom in
                                           about 12 minutes.   The second instance involved a pick-up load of opportunists cruising the Coconino National
                                            Forest several miles northwest of Flagstaff.  She, her sister ( a confirmed yuppie anti-gunner ) a female mutual
                                             acquaintance and my young son had decided to quit the heat in Phoenix and spend a weekend camping in the
                                              high country.   After cruising by twice the pick-up load of men stopped and they got out and approached the
                                               campsite.  They were greeted by the muzzle of a 12 guage coach gun and a holstered Redhawk and decided
                                                they had stopped at the wrong campsite.   There was no cellphone service in the area of the campsite so the
                                                 Coconino Co. Sheriff's department was not notified of the incident until the next day.  No shots were fired in
                                                  either instance but she is convinced that if it were not for the dog at home and the weapons displayed at the
                                                   campsite, things could have turned very ugly.
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goatroper

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Re: Sheriffs versus Feds
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 10:39:47 PM »

Anecdotal point of interest:  Twice in the last fifteen years my wife has had to arm herself in order to respond to immediate threats.   Once to an
                                          attempted home invasion in broad daylight.  Tempe police responded to the 911 call she made from the bedroom in
                                           about 12 minutes.   The second instance involved a pick-up load of opportunists cruising the Coconino National
                                            Forest several miles northwest of Flagstaff.  She, her sister ( a confirmed yuppie anti-gunner ) a female mutual
                                             acquaintance and my young son had decided to quit the heat in Phoenix and spend a weekend camping in the
                                              high country.   After cruising by twice the pick-up load of men stopped and they got out and approached the
                                               campsite.  They were greeted by the muzzle of a 12 guage coach gun and a holstered Redhawk and decided
                                                they had stopped at the wrong campsite.   There was no cellphone service in the area of the campsite so the
                                                 Coconino Co. Sheriff's department was not notified of the incident until the next day.  No shots were fired in
                                                  either instance but she is convinced that if it were not for the dog at home and the weapons displayed at the
                                                   campsite, things could have turned very ugly.

Y'know what they say -- anecdotes are not data.  So what?  That captures it all, in the proverbial nutshell.  If it were my wife (and she wouldn't) that's exactly the outcome I'd have looked for.

I'm glad for you and yours she had the presence of mind to react appropriately.
VirginiaGoatroper

fnfnc64

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Re: Sheriffs versus Feds
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 11:21:29 PM »
The Trib SUCKS! They always have.


This is the letter the sheriffs sent to obama that the trib is going off about

Dear President Obama:

We, the elected sheriffs of Utah, like so many of our fellow Americans, are literally heartbroken for the loved ones of the murdered victims in Connecticut. As Utahans, we are not strangers to this kind of carnage—one of the latest being the 2007 Trolley Square murders wherein nine innocents were gunned down—five losing their lives.

We also recognize the scores of other recent domestic massacres, which have decimated countless honorable lives. As Americans, we value the sanctity of life. Furthermore, similar to our inspired Founders, we acknowledge our subservience to a higher power.

With the number of mass shootings America has endured, it is easy to demonize firearms; it is also foolish and prejudiced. Firearms are nothing more than instruments, valuable and potentially dangerous, but instruments nonetheless. Malevolent souls, like the criminals who commit mass murders, will always exploit valuable instruments in the pursuit of evil. As professional peace officers, if we understand nothing else, we understand this: lawful violence must sometimes be employed to deter and stop criminal violence. Consequently, the citizenry must continue its ability to keep and bear arms, including arms that adequately protect them from all types of illegality.

As your administration and Congress continue to grapple with the complex issue of firearm regulations, we pray that the Almighty will guide the People’s Representatives collectively. For that reason, it is imperative this discussion be had in Congress, not silenced unilaterally by executive orders. As you deliberate, please remember the Founders of this great nation created the Constitution, and its accompanying Bill of Rights, in an effort to protect citizens from all forms of tyrannical subjugation.

We respect the Office of the President of the United States of America. But, make no mistake, as the duly-elected sheriffs of our respective counties, we will enforce the rights guaranteed to our citizens by the Constitution. No federal official will be permitted to descend upon our constituents and take from them what the Bill of Rights—in particular Amendment II—has given them. We, like you, swore a solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and we are prepared to trade our lives for the preservation of its traditional interpretation.

The Utah Sheriffs’ Association
UtahSi vis pacem, para bellum

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 Life NRA


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Re: Sheriffs versus Feds
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 12:26:33 AM »
The Trib and KSL both suck.

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LoneStarNational

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Re: Sheriffs versus Feds
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 12:40:27 AM »
That. Letter. Is. Awesome. :clap
Texas"...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right..."  -Thomas Paine

"You all can go to hell... I'm going to Texas."  -Davy Crockett

"Thumb back that hammer, watch that cylinder turn, and try not to s*** yourse


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