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Author Topic: Holder's testimony  (Read 15737 times)

Panhead Bill

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Holder's testimony
« on: February 02, 2012, 01:06:21 AM »
Does anyone know what time holder is supposed to testify tomorrow?  I want to set cspan to DVR his testimony - it'll be a fun one to watch.

Bill
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coyotesfan97

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 03:56:00 AM »
Maybe they can ask him about this too.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/01/bribery-compromised-officials-leave-indicted-financial-crime-suspects-free-from-prosecution-under-holders-doj/

A U.S. Justice Department source has told The Daily Caller that at least two DOJ prosecutors accepted cash bribes from allegedly corrupt finance executives who were indicted under court seal within the past 13 months, but never arrested or prosecuted

 :hmm


ArizonaThe bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.  Thucydides 471BC

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 06:32:02 AM »
With the FBI under HLS and the Justice Dept. why do we we wonder "Why?" no one is being prosecuted?  :panic
At one time the FBI was independent and had politicians quaking in their own excrement if they even thought about being corrupt.  :o
That was why the FBI existed.  ;)
Now they are puppets to HLS and the Justice Department.  :banghead
Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

Panhead Bill

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 11:07:51 AM »
Bummer, I was hoping I'd be able to catch it on cspan - no such luck. It's not on either of the tv channels.  Might be on cspan's website, but I dont have I-net at home and none of the videos on cspan's site will play on my I-phone.

Not like I can count on the news to tell me what Holder said. At least we've got David Codrea to give us the whole story.

Bill
California

Panhead Bill

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 11:25:20 AM »
On a side note, you mean we can't count on the FBI, under the wing of the DOJ,  to investigate wrongdoing by the DOJ, and then turn it's findings over to the DOJ to appropriately punish the DOJ for the DOJ's wrongdoings as determined by the DOJ (through the FBI)?  Hmm, what could I be missing.

Bill
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goatroper

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 12:13:08 PM »
On a side note, you mean we can't count on the FBI, under the wing of the DOJ,  to investigate wrongdoing by the DOJ, and then turn it's findings over to the DOJ to appropriately punish the DOJ for the DOJ's wrongdoings as determined by the DOJ (through the FBI)?  Hmm, what could I be missing.

Bill


Funny how that works, ain't it?  Starting to think both sides are just playing politics with this.

In addition to Codrea, Mike Vanderboegh keeps track of the whole sad spectacle at http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/
VirginiaGoatroper

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 12:22:35 PM »
And I believe that it requires the President to appoint an special prosecutor (see Starr, Ken).  Which you won't see from The Won, unless he's targeting a rival (Dem or GOP).

I've got $50 that says we'll see impeachment hearings (the House side, at least) for Holder, at a minimum, starting this summer.  If I were in Rep. Issa's place, I'd make sure the hearings were running during the Dem convention.
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freeman1685

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 02:34:21 PM »
I've got $50 that says we'll see impeachment hearings (the House side, at least) for Holder, at a minimum, starting this summer.  If I were in Rep. Issa's place, I'd make sure the hearings were running during the Dem convention.

That would be nice, except Holder is in an appointed position, not an elected one.  He has to resign, or be fired, don't see that happening.  Remember what happened with what's 'er name?  Waco and Ruby Ridge ring any bells?  They actually proved wrong doing on her part.  They couldn't get rid of her either, not 'til there was someone else in the White House.
ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

Panhead Bill

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 02:55:12 PM »
In addition to Codrea, Mike Vanderboegh keeps track of the whole sad spectacle at http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/



I was going to mention both David Codrea and Mike, but I knew I would end up butchering
Mike's last name.  ::)

Bill
California

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 03:05:40 PM »
Here's a preview of how it'll likely go:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/02/holder-says-no-one-punished-yet-during-testimony-on-controversial-fast-and/

Short version: Holder is claiming that he didn't know a bout F&F until after BG Agent Terry's death, he ordered F&F's tactics stopped immediately once he figured out what was going on, he has cooperated fully with Congress, there is no cover-up, and the actions being taken against him are purely political and intended to embarrass the Obama administration.

The money quote: "'I don't think the American people have lost trust in me. ...'This has become political, I get that," he [Holder] said." God, what a deluded, arrogant @$$.

Am I the only one finding myself longing for the good ol' days when $#!^ like this would get someone, even a politician, sent to the wall with a blindfold?
Pennsylvania“Libprogs want conservatives to be silent. Conservatives want libprogs to keep talking so the world can see just how full of sh*t they are.” – Larry Correia

Mamba1-0

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2012, 05:42:23 PM »
Holder to Issa: I’ll hold people accountable … for whistleblowing

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/02/holder-to-issa-ill-hold-people-accountable-for-whistleblowing/

Apparently, that's the *REAL* crime in holder's Justus Dept.  :facepalm
Missouri

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 12:33:51 AM »
As a refresher, here's a decent cliff notes version of events up to this point - http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/68ac18a2#/68ac18a2/68  I think this WILL become an election issue for Obama.  It should. 

Now,  this business of playing favorites with weapons and aid depending on which governments or rebels we support?  Having those weapons captured and used against us by the other side is a known risk factor we take. 


This is different.  By a long shot.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 10:46:22 PM by THE NORSEMAN »
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty...
The right of self defense is the first law of nature.

Chief45

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 10:13:08 AM »
1.  The House by the vote of 65% of the members can initiate a Bill of Impeachment that specifies why a person should be removed from elected or appointed office.  The grounds for impeachment shall be actions that knowingly undermine the Constitution, treason, corruption of office for personal gain, and major felonies.

    Article II, Section 4

    The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

 so,  short version,  ANY Federal official,  Elected or Appointed,  can be impeached.   Which is only the indictment.  The trial, to remove from office, must be conducted by the Senate.   

Kansas. . . . Non Timebo Mala . . . . . . . I will fear no evil. . .

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Langenator

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 10:30:21 AM »
And since the Dems control the Senate
But if the GOP side was smart, they'd figure a way to make a HUGE issue over this.

I'm not sure the House could get the necessary 65%, in which case, the House proceedings themselves become the key thing.

But if the House were to vote articles of impeachment against Holder on this, if I'm Mitch McConnell (is he still the GOP lead in the Senate?) I tell Dingy Harry that the GOP will filibuster EVERYTHING, right down to the silly motions congratulating someone's state championship basketball team, unless and until the trial takes place.

Hell, how many thousands of pages of DOJ emails are there, that have already been turned over, and that we know are only a fraction of what exists?  Start reading every single one of them, verbatim, into the record, from the Senate floor.
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Panhead Bill

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2012, 12:18:35 PM »
Amazing how the Dems have made the investigation a completely partisan, political issue, and then they've spun it and have the media trumpeting that it's Issa and the repubs that are making it political.

I fear that they're being successful in turning it into a partisan political issue, which will only serve to marginalize and demean/lessen the end results of the investigation.

Bill
California

goatroper

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2012, 09:22:03 PM »
Your fear may be manifesting.  If Mr. V is right, and the fix is already in, this will go the way of most gov political theater, with the trashing of a few of the smaller fish who will have their lives destroyed to protect the big guys.

And if he's right, it's more difficult than ever to imagine this being put right without blood.  Quite a bit of blood spilled already for this to just be swept aside, and that sweeping aside would make the "rule of law" talk meaningless.

"Yesterday was the devil's own day in the Gunwalker scandal investigation and the search for the truth suffered as a result."

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/02/sipsey-street-exclusive-meet-silent.html
VirginiaGoatroper

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2012, 09:34:38 AM »
Unasked/unanswered questions on F&F, from Bob Owens at PJMedia ( http://pjmedia.com/blog/fast-and-furious-three-questions-not-asked/?singlepage=true ):

******************************************************

Fast and Furious: Three Questions Not Asked
A competent media would relentlessly pursue the three answers.


Attorney General Eric Holder provided a sixth unsatisfactory performance in front of Congress this past week, dodging questions about the nation’s deadly gunrunning scandal.

To date, the media has largely buried the story of the Department of Justice scheme that contributed to the deaths of a federal agent and more than 300 Mexican citizens. Such a story would have held front-page, top-of-the-hour focus until answers were provided and officials had been hounded out of office or imprisoned had it occurred under a Republican administration.

But Barack Obama is a Democrat, and black. Also, Eric Holder is a Democrat, and black. It is inconceivable for the mainstream media to grill the decisions, motives, or goals of black Democrats for fear of being “racist” according to their own definition of the term, which is criticism of a minority member who professes the “correct” political ideology. Radically different rules apply for minority Republicans.

Whether Operation Fast and Furious was a legitimate law enforcement operation, as the Department of Justice claims, or was part of a plot to impose gun control, it was radically different from all other border gun operations in one crucial way. Operation Fast and Furious was the only border gun operation that was undertaken with the full intention of the straw-purchased guns leaving the control of law enforcement officers and reaching the armories of drug cartel murderers. That fact alone should lead to the impeachment or administrative removal of everyone, from field agents to political appointees and elected officials that knew or should have known about the plot.

But that is only half of the horror story.

Operation Fast and Furious was specifically conceived so that “walked” guns would be recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Their serial numbers would be provided to the ATF by Mexican authorities for tracing. Regardless of motive, the entire operation was premised on weapons being recovered at crime scenes in Mexico, and law enforcement agencies are well aware that criminals primarily abandon weapons only after they’ve been used in serious felony crimes such as murder or attempted murder.

Operation Fast and Furious was conceived knowing that Mexican nationals would be sacrificed in significant numbers if the tracing operation had any chance of working.

Operation Fast and Furious allowed more than 2,000 weapons to “walk,” indicating that those in charge of the operation were willing to let thousands of Mexican nationals die in an effort to identify the ringleaders of a cartel’s weapon acquisition team.

The Department of Justice claims that they did this so that they could trace the weapons to higher-ups in the cartels and take down entire gun-smuggling networks. Decent people can disagree on many aspects of crime fighting and the amount of risk we should be willing to absorb to fight crime, but we should all agree that no criminal network is worth sacrificing the lives of hundreds or thousands of victims.  Yet that is precisely the way Operation Fast and Furious was designed to work.

The first question is obvious, and yet remains unasked by the media and unanswered by the Obama administration and Department of Justice:

    Who conceived this radical departure from normal law enforcement practices? Who conceived an operation that depended upon the deaths of hundreds or thousands of Mexican nationals for its success?

But as disturbing as the conception of the plot was, it was merely an idea, if one that most would agree is objectively evil in design. It should have died stillborn on the proverbial drawing board. Somehow, this idea was not just allowed, but someone with significant political and operational clout within the Justice Department was able to shepherd this high-risk and inarguably lethal program from idea through planning and budgeting into execution. This strongly suggests high-level sponsorship within the Department of Justice. This demands answers to a second question:

    Which Department of Justice officials saw that Operation Fast and Furious was dependent on hundreds or thousands of firearms being given to the cartels and recovered at the scenes of crimes, knew that the crimes in question were likely to be murders of Mexican nationals or U.S. citizens along the Mexican border where the cartels operate, and approved the operation anyway?

We know that Operation Fast and Furious depended entirely upon hundred or thousands of walked weapons being recovered at crime scenes so that weapons could be traced, and that those crime scenes would almost certainly be murders. We know that such a high-risk, low-reward program could not have be conceived or approved at a local level, and that it must have had high-level sponsorship within Justice. It is reasonable to make the assumption, unless proven otherwise, that such approval could only come from the level of a deputy attorney general or higher.

President Barack Obama is the very definition of a “political creature,” vaulting through local and state politics to the U.S. Senate and into the presidency at phenomenal speed. He knows that liabilities are to be relentlessly purged, and he did so repeatedly to separate himself from old allies and even mentors in his 2008 political campaign. Sentimental he is not.

He is also well aware that an ongoing, long-term political scandal is just the kind of public relations nightmare he does not need as he enters his reelection campaign season in earnest. Once the Republican primary battle is over and the stage is set for the general election battle, the political and legal spectacle of Operation Fast and Furious will be brought to the forefront by the Republican challenger or by one of the super PACs. Operation Fast and Furious is a serious and unresolved problem that endangers his second term as seriously as a problematic economy.

Any competent political operative within the Obama campaign would want the scandal surrounding Operation Fast and Furious resolved as quickly as possible to remove it as a weapon against Obama’s election. Fair or foul, cutting your losses is how the game is played, and it is miraculous that Attorney General Eric Holder still retains the president’s support after the allegations of Operation Fast and Furious and various other scandals that are emerging at precisely the wrong time.

This leads us to a third question:

     Knowing that Operation Fast and Furious could be the political and criminal albatross that drives away moderates and Latino voters and destroys his chances of winning a second term, why does President Obama refuse to appoint a special prosecutor or, at the very least, call for Eric Holder and his direct reports to resign?

Considering the president’s close relationship with the attorney general, it is possible that Mr. Obama simply does not want to turn on a friend and political ally. There is also the possibility, however, that Mr. Holder is quite well below the person who approved the operation and was aware of it. Evidence suggests that White House officials may have been briefed on the operation. It is conceivable that the attorney general holds evidence that assures he will not be forced out.

These are intriguing questions, and each demands a thorough explanation.

If the media were interested in some sort of objective view of reality that most non-ideologues could easily confuse with something akin to truth, they would only need to relentlessly seek the answers to these three questions on which a presidency may indeed turn.

***********************************

From the comments section on the above link, by cfbleachers:

"This doesn’t look, feel, smell like a law enforcement project. It has all the earmarks of a community organizer’s project. Plant evidence, stir up trouble…point at the trouble. The harder the 2nd amendment defenders argue, the more you point at the trouble. Until they capitulate.

Works with banks. Works with real estate.

Think like an ACORN."
VirginiaGoatroper

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2012, 09:34:30 PM »
Today.  From a New York based newspaper no less-  http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/it_time_to_return_holder_contempt_pw6HxNVJifwkZmabXSVZNP -OUCH. :thumbup1

One hopes that congress can make this the issue it should be in the coming months.  We need national level headlines at least once a week on this mess.
 
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty...
The right of self defense is the first law of nature.

HMPlatinum

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2012, 10:48:15 PM »
Good luck if you're expecting honesty, integrity, or true American values, maybe with a little decency thrown in, from those leeches out east.
Missouri"You can only fight the way you practice"  - Miyamoto Musashi

Diapers and politicians should be changed often. For the very same reasons.

THE NORSEMAN

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2012, 02:47:20 AM »
I don't think this one's going away any time soon.  It may(hopefully) turn into a perfect October storm - 
Rep. Chaffetz on FOX America's Newsoom re: Fast and Furious
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty...
The right of self defense is the first law of nature.

THE NORSEMAN

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2012, 10:27:41 PM »
The latest F&F update-  AZ ATF agent pleads 5th Amendment protection- http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/20/federal-official-in-arizona-to-plead-fifth-and-not-answer-questions-on-furious/ 

Oh, so NOW they get how the Constitution works...... >:( :banghead
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 09:08:01 AM by THE NORSEMAN »
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty...
The right of self defense is the first law of nature.

coelacanth

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2012, 12:08:31 AM »
It just gets deeper and stickier, doesn't it?   
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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2012, 10:39:49 PM »
It just gets deeper and stickier, doesn't it?   
Like an outhouse in summertime at the State Fair!

Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

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Re: Holder's testimony
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2012, 09:53:29 PM »
Did you ever notice that when ever anyone shakes hands with his "King of double talk" they always check to make sure that they still have their watch and ring?
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