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Author Topic: Bringing it, by FedEx  (Read 1349 times)

goatroper

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Bringing it, by FedEx
« on: January 28, 2017, 10:16:19 AM »
FedEx driver shows how it's done:

[Language alert]

http://pic.twitter.com/aPkMdls6oQ
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 12:42:06 PM by StevenTing »
VirginiaGoatroper

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    MTK20

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 10:50:12 AM »
    The constitution grants you the right to burn the flag, but if you do, you're still a dick.

    I hope the Fed Ex driver didn't get fired.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

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    goatroper

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 06:37:34 PM »
    The constitution grants you the right to burn the flag, but if you do, you're still a dick.

    I hope the Fed Ex driver didn't get fired.

    He didn't:

    http://tribunist.com/news/breakig-fedex-just-announced-the-fate-of-driver-who-fought-off-flag-protesters/?utm_source=BP

    Even better (from the same article, above), justice/karma have prevailed.


    "While the act of burning the flag is protected free speech, two members of the protest still found themselves facing charges when police showed up. Paul Ogersby and Kelli Ebensberger were both charged with violating Iowa City’s public burn ordinance since they did not obtain the proper permits for burning in public.

    "They could face up to a $625 fine and possibly, but unlikely, thirty days in jail."

    VirginiaGoatroper

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #3 on: January 28, 2017, 06:43:22 PM »
    He didn't:

    http://tribunist.com/news/breakig-fedex-just-announced-the-fate-of-driver-who-fought-off-flag-protesters/?utm_source=BP

    Even better (from the same article, above), justice/karma have prevailed.


    "While the act of burning the flag is protected free speech, two members of the protest still found themselves facing charges when police showed up. Paul Ogersby and Kelli Ebensberger were both charged with violating Iowa City’s public burn ordinance since they did not obtain the proper permits for burning in public.

    "They could face up to a $625 fine and possibly, but unlikely, thirty days in jail."


     :rotfl :thumbup1
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 07:42:02 PM »
    I'm OK with a fine and jail time for violating the burn ordinance.  Mr. Uhrin was performing a public service and should be commended.   :cool
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
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    coyotesfan97

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 08:40:21 PM »
    He didn't:

    http://tribunist.com/news/breakig-fedex-just-announced-the-fate-of-driver-who-fought-off-flag-protesters/?utm_source=BP

    Even better (from the same article, above), justice/karma have prevailed.


    "While the act of burning the flag is protected free speech, two members of the protest still found themselves facing charges when police showed up. Paul Ogersby and Kelli Ebensberger were both charged with violating Iowa City’s public burn ordinance since they did not obtain the proper permits for burning in public.

    "They could face up to a $625 fine and possibly, but unlikely, thirty days in jail."



    HA HA!
    ArizonaThe bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.  Thucydides 471BC

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    Plebian

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 10:15:49 PM »
    I never quite understood the purpose of burning the flag in protest.

    IF you hate the US there are plenty of other countries willing to take US citizens.

    It seems signs, marches or pretty much anything else would be a more effective way to protest.

    The only logical reason I would see to burn the flag would be if you really hated the design of the flag itself and wanted it changed.  :shrug
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #7 on: January 29, 2017, 11:34:13 PM »
    I never quite understood the purpose of burning the flag in protest.

    IF you hate the US there are plenty of other countries willing to take US citizens.

    It seems signs, marches or pretty much anything else would be a more effective way to protest.

    The only logical reason I would see to burn the flag would be if you really hated the design of the flag itself and wanted it changed.  :shrug
    The idea must be to stir up overwhelming emotion in the viewer, and incite them to intervene or do something rash.  For instance, punching a flag burner is still assault.  Shooting one is still murder.  The flag is not a person that one can legally defend with force, yet otherwise intelligent patriots will often get stirred up over it.

    Personally, I have no emotional attachment to the American (or any other) flag.  The only reason I would care if you burn one, is if you were burning mine.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #8 on: January 29, 2017, 11:42:12 PM »
    The idea must be to stir up overwhelming emotion in the viewer, and incite them to intervene or do something rash.  For instance, punching a flag burner is still assault.  Shooting one is still murder.  The flag is not a person that one can legally defend with force, yet otherwise intelligent patriots will often get stirred up over it.

    Personally, I have no emotional attachment to the American (or any other) flag.  The only reason I would care if you burn one, is if you were burning mine.

    Every American flag is yours :rock.

    But agreed, it is still illegal to punch idiots, even if they are unpatriotic pinko commies.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Kaso

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 01:03:39 AM »
    Every American flag is yours :rock.

    :yawn If you say so.


    You all know me as someone who admires and embraces logic and reason.  Emotional attachment to an inanimate object is neither.  Even if it is our nation's flag.
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    RetroGrouch

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 02:34:29 AM »
    My view is since burning th flag incites people to violence, then as a form of speech it falls into "fighting words" and should not be protected.  Or the person(s) burning the flag should be fair game to non-life threatening violence.
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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 04:31:33 AM »
    My view is since burning th flag incites people to violence, then as a form of speech it falls into "fighting words" and should not be protected.  Or the person(s) burning the flag should be fair game to non-life threatening violence.

    Is there anything as 'non-life threatening violence'?

    I can understand mutual combat, but that is just both persons being on equal terms and accepting the possibly of life ending risk. It would just seem exceedingly hard to prove the violence is non-life threatening. Unless you are considering something like a vigorous match of pea-knuckle to be violence. 
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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 07:37:56 AM »
    As a First Sergeant, I was responsible for a portion of the newcomer's briefing for incoming personnel.  After going over expectations, requirements, and such, I always finished with this part:  "We've all seen them.  You know, the person who can't run a mile in 15 minutes, but can cover 100 yards in 10 seconds to avoid standing Retreat.  Don't be that person.  It's disrespectful of the flag, and of the people who have, are, and will serve under it.  I don't care how you feel about your flag but that one is mine, and it will be treated with proper respect.  Otherwise, you and I will have words, and you won't get to use any of yours."

    In six years, that speech never failed to get a big grin, and usually, a "Roger that,  Top!"

    Maybe I was doing it wrong?
    Alabama"Stand your ground!  Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!"  Capt. John Parker

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #13 on: January 30, 2017, 11:37:43 AM »

    Maybe I was doing it wrong?
    I don't think so.  You were instructing airmen in proper procedure, and insisting that they follow it.  Such was your job.

    If you used that logic on any non-service member, I imagine your speech would have been received less enthusiastically.  Heck, I might even have laughed at you.  The only 'your flag' that I owe any form of respect to is the one flying on your property, and only to the extent that I must have respect for all of your private property.  The flag is a piece of nylon - the only emotional value is that which one gives it.
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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #14 on: January 30, 2017, 12:19:11 PM »
    I can see the logic of your argument, and I can't refute it.  But I don't believe it.  I'll be the fifth consecutive generation of my family laid to rest under that flag, and it's not just a piece of nylon.  It meant something to them, and it means something to me. 

    So, you can laugh at me when I show the grandkids how to salute the flag, or when I get a little mushy hearing The Star-Spangled Banner, or choke up when I hear Taps.  That's okay.  You have my sympathies.
    Alabama"Stand your ground!  Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!"  Capt. John Parker

    StevenTing

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #15 on: January 30, 2017, 12:44:32 PM »
    While people may have the right to burn the flag, I have the right to put out or prevent the fire. 
    Utah

    Chief45

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #16 on: January 30, 2017, 12:53:51 PM »
    it's a public safety thing.   Those type of folks seem to never have the proper location, equipment or permits to conduct a controlled burn, so it is in the interest of the public to extinguish said flames.

    but then, I'm also one of those that gets upset when an "artiste" puts their own interpretation on the the Star Spangled Banner as well.   
    Don't do that.  Play it like it was written, play / sing with power and pride, but do it right.



     


    While people may have the right to burn the flag, I have the right to put out or prevent the fire.
    KansasUN-Retired LEO.

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #17 on: January 30, 2017, 12:57:57 PM »
    While people may have the right to burn the flag, I have the right to put out or prevent the fire. 
    On public property, perhaps.  But let's say they are doing it safely. (in a burn pit, or whatever)  Can you legally, physically interfere with them in any way, including spraying them with water?  They were there first, does that not give them a greater right than you, to occupy that space?  Just asking hypothetically.
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    Here's to a great four years!

    Chief45

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #18 on: January 30, 2017, 02:08:16 PM »
    but, unlike the Boy Scouts doing a flag burning ceremony, these folks want highly visible PUBLIC and IN YOUR FACE and not Safety.   

    Yes, they probably bought that flag.  Yes, they can destroy their own property if they choose to do so.  But, it must be done in such a way that it does not interfere or infringe on anyone else's rights.

    no, the simple act of burning a flag does not infringe on my rights.   

    But, How do you think they would react to me burning an ISIS black flag in the same manner ?  or a Rainbow flag ? or an Justin Bieber flag  :clap



     

    On public property, perhaps.  But let's say they are doing it safely. (in a burn pit, or whatever)  Can you legally, physically interfere with them in any way, including spraying them with water?  They were there first, does that not give them a greater right than you, to occupy that space?  Just asking hypothetically.
    KansasUN-Retired LEO.

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    RetroGrouch

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #19 on: January 30, 2017, 04:06:52 PM »
    Justin Bieber has a flag?  NOW I want to burn a flag.


    But back to can you stop someone from burning their own property?  We have laws against burning down your own house or car.  If you say it is a form of speech and protected, then spraying your flag with water, foam, CO2, etc., is my form of speech and equally protected, as long as we are on public property, which is where all these protests take place, unless they want to get arrested for trespassing to make a point as well.
    Arizona

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #20 on: January 30, 2017, 04:13:35 PM »
    I was shocked that FedEx didn't fire the guy. Glad but shocked. I was sure they'd cave to outraged hippies and world burners.

    I'd like to see one of those gooey burning nylon flags get stuck to one of the anarchist's bare skin. Then I'd gladly let it burn...re-light it in fact.

    In all seriousness, if anyone tried to burn a flag in any of the towns here in Western NC (minus Asheville :-\ ), there'd be a flash mob of 200 proof whoopass. You'd have to stand in line to get your licks in.
    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

    MTK20

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #21 on: January 30, 2017, 06:41:44 PM »
    I was shocked that FedEx didn't fire the guy. Glad but shocked. I was sure they'd cave to outraged hippies and world burners.

    I'd like to see one of those gooey burning nylon flags get stuck to one of the anarchist's bare skin. Then I'd gladly let it burn...re-light it in fact.

    In all seriousness, if anyone tried to burn a flag in any of the towns here in Western NC (minus Asheville :-\ ), there'd be a flash mob of 200 proof whoopass. You'd have to stand in line to get your licks in.

    Are there a great deal of vets in western NC or just patriotism runs strong there?

    I'm not sure what happens to someone who burns a Texas flag. No one has ever tried it before  :neener.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #22 on: January 30, 2017, 06:55:40 PM »
    I don't think so.  You were instructing airmen in proper procedure, and insisting that they follow it.  Such was your job.

    If you used that logic on any non-service member, I imagine your speech would have been received less enthusiastically.  Heck, I might even have laughed at you.  The only 'your flag' that I owe any form of respect to is the one flying on your property, and only to the extent that I must have respect for all of your private property.  The flag is a piece of nylon - the only emotional value is that which one gives it.
    Well, that is probably an acceptable firewall against an escalation of violence when people are deliberately trying to provoke you but there are circumstances in which that type of provocation goes over the line.  People who will taunt you and provoke you for the express purpose of inflicting suffering upon you are clearly out of line even if a court has ruled their actions to be within the realm of "free speech".  They may be purposely trying to elicit a response that will put you in violation of the law with the idea that if they can do so it is a win for them.  Such actions amount to a conspiracy to subject another person to what could clearly be considered cruel and unusual punishment were it undertaken by an agency of the state.  Witness our treatment of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay if you doubt the truth of that statement. 

    The symbolism of our flag is just as important to those of us who revere what it stands for as the symbolism of the Confederate battle flag is to those who fought and died for it - and their descendants.  Those who burn our flag today seem to think that neither flag or those who fought for the nations represented by them are worthy of respect in any way.  Most are woefully ignorant of the history they so casually disregard and dismissive of the deeply held reverence that usually accompanies that knowledge. This is especially poignant when one's ancestors bled and died in the conflicts of our posterity.  The average protester of today has no inkling what the word "sacrifice" even means in the context of our ancestors and no interest in educating him or herself beyond the slogan of the moment. 

    When that attitude is juxtaposed over the history and experience of those to whom the word duty is a sacred trust a fight is brewing and it is not one sought out or promoted by those who stand for our traditional values.  The fact that this is known and exploited by those who have a different point of view has to be taken into account in any examination of current events.  As a Russian friend of mine once pointed out, "Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.".  Indeed. 
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    MTK20

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #23 on: January 30, 2017, 07:03:44 PM »
    Well, that is probably an acceptable firewall against an escalation of violence when people are deliberately trying to provoke you but there are circumstances in which that type of provocation goes over the line.  People who will taunt you and provoke you for the express purpose of inflicting suffering upon you are clearly out of line even if a court has ruled their actions to be within the realm of "free speech".  They may be purposely trying to elicit a response that will put you in violation of the law with the idea that if they can do so it is a win for them.  Such actions amount to a conspiracy to subject another person to what could clearly be considered cruel and unusual punishment were it undertaken by an agency of the state.  Witness our treatment of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay if you doubt the truth of that statement. 

    The symbolism of our flag is just as important to those of us who revere what it stands for as the symbolism of the Confederate battle flag is to those who fought and died for it - and their descendants.  Those who burn our flag today seem to think that neither flag or those who fought for the nations represented by them are worthy of respect in any way.  Most are woefully ignorant of the history they so casually disregard and dismissive of the deeply held reverence that usually accompanies that knowledge. This is especially poignant when one's ancestors bled and died in the conflicts of our posterity.  The average protester of today has no inkling what the word "sacrifice" even means in the context of our ancestors and no interest in educating him or herself beyond the slogan of the moment. 

    When that attitude is juxtaposed over the history and experience of those to whom the word duty is a sacred trust a fight is brewing and it is not one sought out or promoted by those who stand for our traditional values.  The fact that this is known and exploited by those who have a different point of view has to be taken into account in any examination of current events.  As a Russian friend of mine once pointed out, "Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.".  Indeed.

    Well written as always  :thumbup1.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    sarge712

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    Re: Bringing it, by FedEx
    « Reply #24 on: January 31, 2017, 11:28:34 AM »
    Are there a great deal of vets in western NC or just patriotism runs strong there?


    Both.
    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

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