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Author Topic: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...  (Read 2062 times)

RMc

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Interesting historical and political perspectives:

"It was May 2, 1967, and the Black Panthers’...launched the modern gun-rights movement."

"Governor Reagan told reporters...that he saw 'no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.' ”

"In the 1920s and ’30s, the NRA was at the forefront of legislative efforts to enact gun control."

And a quite a few "forgotten" epics in the battle over the Civil Right to Arms:
 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 03:14:55 PM by RMc »
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    Grant

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #1 on: May 12, 2017, 12:37:24 AM »
        No, even today that is quite prevailant.  That attitude,etc.

         Old men in gunstores who rail about them young'uns who make gun control happen because of them dang semi-autos.       In-betweens who believe in all guns being legal, however needing to have permits to carry, and open to the idea of permits to even own.

       etc.    Even large organizations.   
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Kaso

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #2 on: May 12, 2017, 01:23:20 AM »
        No, even today that is quite prevailant.  That attitude,etc.
    I wouldn't say I am there, and while I do consider myself a strong 2A supporter...  It seems that the older I get and the longer I think about it, (any issue, not just guns) the less I think that 'fewer regulations' is always the answer.  In short, the less I consider myself to be 'libertarian.'
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 01:41:05 AM »
    Like most articles in "The Atlantic", the one in question highlights and sensationalizes some facts while ignoring others that would give proper historical context.   I do appreciate it though for the attempt to give at least some history on a controversial topic. 
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
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    LowKey

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 07:43:23 AM »
    I wouldn't say I am there, and while I do consider myself a strong 2A supporter...  It seems that the older I get and the longer I think about it, (any issue, not just guns) the less I think that 'fewer regulations' is always the answer.  In short, the less I consider myself to be 'libertarian.'
    The problem being that regulations, or any other code that can be enforced over or against the wishes of an individual for that matter, are far too susceptible to being corrupted or co-opted by persons who pervert and misuse them to push their own agendas.  Persons who will sit there and claim that what the regulation means depends on what your definition of the word "is" is. 

    Rules, just like locks, only stop honest people. 


    Grant

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 08:31:44 AM »
    I wouldn't say I am there, and while I do consider myself a strong 2A supporter...  It seems that the older I get and the longer I think about it, (any issue, not just guns) the less I think that 'fewer regulations' is always the answer.  In short, the less I consider myself to be 'libertarian.'

    I feel that in about 30 years you'll be the angry old man shouting at the clouds  :neener


    I know the feeling, however, in ever issue I've argued, support or railed against, could be fixed by less laws.

      Forcing bakers or wedding venues to support gay marriage.  equal opportunity laws, gun rights, taxes.etc.     Make a law that expands someones rights, it will always cut into anothers rights.       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Kaso

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 08:58:32 AM »
    Forcing bakers or wedding venues to support gay marriage.  equal opportunity laws, gun rights, taxes.etc.     Make a law that expands someones rights, it will always cut into anothers rights.       
    The unfortunate thing is that we have come to view protecting and advancing 'rights' as the highest duty of government.  I would place national security and promoting the unity of peoples ahead of them in my government. 

    The problem being that regulations, or any other code that can be enforced over or against the wishes of an individual for that matter, are far too susceptible to being corrupted or co-opted by persons who pervert and misuse them to push their own agendas.
    Their agenda must be the unity of the state, and of all the peoples therein.  Not the partisan 'my side/your side' banter and policies, and certainly not personal interests.

    Two recent history leaders I admire are Franco of Spain, and Tito of Yugoslavia.  Alright, seriously, put away the pitchforks... ::)  Seriously though, Franco presided over a unified society, advancing the interests of the state and promoting traditional Spanish culture.  Unfortunately, his nation was a homogenous people.  That is where I admire Tito, because though I disagree with his policies a good deal more than I do Franco's, Tito presided over a very diverse collection of peoples, and managed to hold them together far better than his successors.

    That is what I am after.  Someone to hold us together as One People - the American People - long enough that we as a country can unify our culture and our values, and then a leader than will make 'being' American a central plank of his policies.

    Maybe (most likely) I'm just pissing into the wind here.  I know this will never happen.  But if forcing someone to bake a cake for a pair of pooftahs advances the feeling of 'one people, one culture,' then I will accept that as a necessary expense of prevent our country from doing what Tito's did after he was gone - Balkanizing.
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    MTK20

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 09:42:33 AM »
    I think coelacanth was right in saying sensationalism.

    The author tried to draw a line between how both party's have effected gun control measures, but they completely missed the point. There is no republican or democrat, there is merely those who wish to control the lives of others and those who are controlled. Just because there is previous record of others with self percieved ideas of righteous authority and they use that authority to control others, in no way sets a precedent that said behaviour is moral or justified. I've always been very wary of politicians who thought their ideas were so good that they made them mandatory.

    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

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    Kaso

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 09:51:47 AM »
    So basically you and I are on complete opposite ends of this debate. ;)
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    booksmart

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 10:33:52 AM »
     :coffee

    LowKey

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 01:07:10 PM »
    The unfortunate thing is that we have come to view protecting and advancing 'rights' as the highest duty of government.  I would place national security and promoting the unity of peoples ahead of them <rights> in my government. 
     Their agenda must be the unity of the state, and of all the peoples therein.  Not the partisan 'my side/your side' banter and policies, and certainly not personal interests.

    Defense of individual rights is the highest duty of government.
    If it was not it wouldn't matter if a government functioned like a well oiled precision machine, it wouldn't be a government worth supporting...or even tolerating.    One of the problems in the US today is that government and it's bureaucrats are labeling things  "rights" which are in truth "favoritism" or "privileges"  that infringe upon the actual rights of others. Rights are not coercive, they are not things which can be used to force another to do something. Rights are are a shield, not a sword.   
    The right to freedom of religion prevents anyone from forcing you to practice a particular faith, it does not empower anyone to make you choose a faith or to have any faith at all. 
    The right to freedom of speech prevents anyone from silencing you or preventing you from expressing your thoughts or opinions, but it does not empower you to force others to listen to you.

    Making a bakery prepare a cake for someone whom they do not wish to make said cake isn't protecting the right of the cake buyer....they have no right to force the baker (or anyone else) into a business transaction against their will.   Any law stating otherwise, and any court decision supporting it, are violations of (in that instance) of the Baker's rights and simply an expression of mob rule through persons sitting on the bench who have violated their oath to uphold the law in favor of supporting a cause they personally support.  Not much different than them giving favorable verdicts to their friends and family.    It's an example misuse of authority, not of a government performing it's duty.

    I could care less for the "unity of the state" unless that state has protecting the rights of it's citizens as it's number one priority. North Korea is a state with a high degree of "Unity" but it's also one I find to not be worth a damn and if I were forced to live in it I'd be working hard to destroy it by any means.
    Likewise I care very little about "Unity of...the people therein".  I'm not into holding hands and singing "Kumbaya", nor do I have a desire for everyone to have the same point of view on everything.   


    MTK20

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 01:54:59 PM »
    So basically you and I are on complete opposite ends of this debate. ;)

    No, no, I wouldn't say that. We both seem to dislike unnecessary authority and we both respect tradition to a degree. I just think I have a more anti-authoritarian streak than you do and I think you respect a traditional, homogeneous culture more than I do.

    I wouldn't be so hasty as to put us as being completely at odds with one another  ;).
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    wyatt

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #12 on: May 12, 2017, 02:10:40 PM »
    Defense of individual rights is the highest duty of government.
    If it was not it wouldn't matter if a government functioned like a well oiled precision machine, it wouldn't be a government worth supporting...or even tolerating.    One of the problems in the US today is that government and it's bureaucrats are labeling things  "rights" which are in truth "favoritism" or "privileges"  that infringe upon the actual rights of others. Rights are not coercive, they are not things which can be used to force another to do something. Rights are are a shield, not a sword.   
    The right to freedom of religion prevents anyone from forcing you to practice a particular faith, it does not empower anyone to make you choose a faith or to have any faith at all. 
    The right to freedom of speech prevents anyone from silencing you or preventing you from expressing your thoughts or opinions, but it does not empower you to force others to listen to you.

    Making a bakery prepare a cake for someone whom they do not wish to make said cake isn't protecting the right of the cake buyer....they have no right to force the baker (or anyone else) into a business transaction against their will.   Any law stating otherwise, and any court decision supporting it, are violations of (in that instance) of the Baker's rights and simply an expression of mob rule through persons sitting on the bench who have violated their oath to uphold the law in favor of supporting a cause they personally support.  Not much different than them giving favorable verdicts to their friends and family.    It's an example misuse of authority, not of a government performing it's duty.

    I could care less for the "unity of the state" unless that state has protecting the rights of it's citizens as it's number one priority. North Korea is a state with a high degree of "Unity" but it's also one I find to not be worth a damn and if I were forced to live in it I'd be working hard to destroy it by any means.
    Likewise I care very little about "Unity of...the people therein".  I'm not into holding hands and singing "Kumbaya", nor do I have a desire for everyone to have the same point of view on everything.   



    Very well said, Thank You.

    Kaso

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 07:10:04 PM »
    Defense of individual rights is the highest duty of government.
    If it was not it wouldn't matter if a government functioned like a well oiled precision machine, it wouldn't be a government worth supporting...or even tolerating. 
    Wrong.  The highest duty of the government is to safeguard the best interests of its people.  In many ways this is best accomplished by advancing individual rights, (such as the right to self defense) but the horse pulls the cart, not the other way around. 

    Making a bakery prepare a cake for someone whom they do not wish to make said cake isn't protecting the right of the cake buyer....they have no right to force the baker (or anyone else) into a business transaction against their will.
    I used to see it that way.  I have since come around to understand that a society will not long survive everyone playing according to their own rule book.  Whether one likes the idea of gay marriage or not, (I do not) the gays pay taxes, and thus must be afforded the services and the protection of the state.  Why do we disallow discrimination based on race?  Because it furthers an 'us an them' America.  Because it denies citizens access to services.  Because it creates discord among peoples.  So too does allowing the Christian baker to deny service to the queers.  It furthers the divide between the Left and Right Americas. 

    To be sure, I agree with what you said about judicial activism.  The Law must be the basis of national unity, not the personal interests of those in power. 

    I could care less for the "unity of the state" unless that state has protecting the rights of it's citizens as it's number one priority. North Korea is a state with a high degree of "Unity" but it's also one I find to not be worth a damn and if I were forced to live in it I'd be working hard to destroy it by any means.
    I do care, because I want to see our country survive without breaking into regional and ethnic entities.  North Korea is a good example of why a government must exist for the people's best interests, and I will never argue that it should not. 

    Likewise I care very little about "Unity of...the people therein".  I'm not into holding hands and singing "Kumbaya", nor do I have a desire for everyone to have the same point of view on everything.   
    Our nation is never going to be truly homogenous.  It never truly was, being settled by those who fled the European continent to escape various persecutions and troubles.  Certainly, we will never go back to being a WASP society.  Instead we must find something overriding that can unite us across race, ethnicity and religion.  I can only think of one thing that can accomplish that - a strong personal and national sense of Being American.  America first.  Nation before self.
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    Grant

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #14 on: May 12, 2017, 09:57:51 PM »
         See myself.......When a government gets as large and diverse as it is currently, the end result can be nothing BUT division.  :shrug   Repeated process the same as the Roman empire, with many of the same causes.

           My views are a bit different than most.    I believe the world's problems, the US and former 1st worl foremost is the moving away from long-held religious beliefs.   Believe or not whether god exists (I do), the fear of a retribution for one's crimes on earth is what held in check many of the more horrific things that happen now.

        I'll say up front that I love the United States and it's history.     That said, an individuals rights have a 1 percent advantage (51-49%) over the majority good.   The examples I mean are like laws governing mass interaction (traffic laws,etc. where one person interacts with hundreds semi-anonymously) VS personal interaction.

         The problems isn't the increasing diversification of the United States....nor is legislating equality laws on people  :-\     I will flat out say I believe the largest (insolvable problem) facing the United States, and it's decline, is liberalism.       My beliefs harm no one.  I force my beliefs on no one.   What actions I take affect no other.

       Liberalism's core belief is forcing their own ideas on others.   Universal healthcare, abortion, taxation and removing one's personal liberties all involve forcing others to their view.

       I could care less if liberals want to provide everyone with healthcare. Fine, go ahead.  I don't believe someone is born with the right to get anything they want.  Don't make me pay for their ****.   

       There's no way to stop it, as the Roman Empire showed, and Britain, and now slowly, the US.   However watch the increase in liberalism, and you will see the decline of nations.

         
       I "somewhat" agree with Kaso.  I believe discrimination shouldn't be allowed.  We differ on the points.

    Anti-discrimination laws start out with good intentions and go too far.     Affirmitive action of Colleges for instance.......going for racial representation rather than grades being an example.....how can anyone justify that for "national unity"?

       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Plebian

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #15 on: May 12, 2017, 10:16:47 PM »
    'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness'

    It seems pretty clear some fairly well read individuals thought that a government's MAIN duty was protecting individual rights. There is also the point about principles, powers and form to effect safety and happiness as well.

    I can also use some quotes from fiction and non-fiction for where Kaso is heading if he follows his line of thought to completion.

    'Strength through unity, Unity through faith' - V for Vendetta the Movie.

    "Action within Unity"  - British Union of Fascists slogan

    When you flirt with unity over individual rights. You head down the road to either fascism OR Marxism. They are basically opposites of the same coin.

    I believe what you are searching for is not in government, Kaso. You should wish to serve your nation because you believe in its' idea. You should never put a nation first OR America first. You should put your ideals of your nation first. Nations and pieces of land you stand in can change names or disappear, but as long as you hold an idea above all else they will never perish.

    “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.” - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on. Ideas have endurance without death." -JFK

    The American Idea is what bound us for so many years. It still lives in many individuals hearts. Identity politics, political correctness and poor instruction of the idea is what is failing us not our governmental system. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    MTK20

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #16 on: May 12, 2017, 10:27:36 PM »
         See myself.......When a government gets as large and diverse as it is currently, the end result can be nothing BUT division.  :shrug   Repeated process the same as the Roman empire, with many of the same causes.

           My views are a bit different than most.    I believe the world's problems, the US and former 1st worl foremost is the moving away from long-held religious beliefs.   Believe or not whether god exists (I do), the fear of a retribution for one's crimes on earth is what held in check many of the more horrific things that happen now.

        I'll say up front that I love the United States and it's history.     That said, an individuals rights have a 1 percent advantage (51-49%) over the majority good.   The examples I mean are like laws governing mass interaction (traffic laws,etc. where one person interacts with hundreds semi-anonymously) VS personal interaction.

         The problems isn't the increasing diversification of the United States....nor is legislating equality laws on people  :-\     I will flat out say I believe the largest (insolvable problem) facing the United States, and it's decline, is liberalism.       My beliefs harm no one.  I force my beliefs on no one.   What actions I take affect no other.

       Liberalism's core belief is forcing their own ideas on others.   Universal healthcare, abortion, taxation and removing one's personal liberties all involve forcing others to their view.

       I could care less if liberals want to provide everyone with healthcare. Fine, go ahead.  I don't believe someone is born with the right to get anything they want.  Don't make me pay for their ****.   

       There's no way to stop it, as the Roman Empire showed, and Britain, and now slowly, the US.   However watch the increase in liberalism, and you will see the decline of nations.

         
       I "somewhat" agree with Kaso.  I believe discrimination shouldn't be allowed.  We differ on the points.

    Anti-discrimination laws start out with good intentions and go too far.     Affirmitive action of Colleges for instance.......going for racial representation rather than grades being an example.....how can anyone justify that for "national unity"?

       

    I would like to say that I believe a business should be allowed to discriminate. If a business has unfavourable views, then the populace will vote with its dollars, the business will fail, and capitalism will win the day. Remember that Jim crow laws were enacted and held by government, that wasn't the work of private business.

    Regarding religion... I'm not sure how that factors into today's political climate  :shrug. I think we know more about the world now thanks to technology, but I think humans have always been this depraved.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #17 on: May 12, 2017, 10:36:55 PM »
    One of the main issues young people face is seeing western traditions NOT held up as demonstrably better ideals. It is not allowed to take pride in what the 'white male capitalist patriarchy' has accomplished. Western countries are all part of the first world for some reason. It is NOT just pure luck, or you would not have seen Japan rise so high once they adopted western ideals.

    The USA proves it is not race, religion or gender that matters. It is the idea of western society, and those horribly oppressive capitalist ideals with the equally horrible idea of secularism and free speech.

    Liberal, secular democracy might not be perfect, but it is provably better than all the other s___ humans have tried. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #18 on: May 12, 2017, 11:34:20 PM »
    The American Idea is what bound us for so many years. It still lives in many individuals hearts. Identity politics, political correctness and poor instruction of the idea is what is failing us not our governmental system. 
    A point to ponder.  For many years that was the unifying ideal that allowed many peoples to blend together into one nation.
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    LowKey

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #19 on: May 13, 2017, 01:15:13 AM »
    I would like to say that I believe a business should be allowed to discriminate. If a business has unfavourable views, then the populace will vote with its dollars, the business will fail, and capitalism will win the day. Remember that Jim crow laws were enacted and held by government, that wasn't the work of private business.

    Regarding religion... I'm not sure how that factors into today's political climate  :shrug. I think we know more about the world now thanks to technology, but I think humans have always been this depraved.
    This, exactly. 
    I support anyones right as a private entity to refuse goods or services to anyone they wish for whatever reason they desire.
    I also fully support picketing their business (from a position on public property) and otherwise boycotting them until they go out of business if I find their reason for refusing goods or services to be repugnant. 

    They get to exercise their right of association, and I get to exercise my right to freedom of speech and expression.   
    Neither party has their rights denied.

    LowKey

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #20 on: May 13, 2017, 01:38:44 AM »
    Wrong.  The highest duty of the government is to safeguard the best interests of its people.  In many ways this is best accomplished by advancing individual rights, (such as the right to self defense) but the horse pulls the cart, not the other way around. 

    And who gets to decide what's in my best interests? 

    Maybe a better question to ask is who get's to decide what is in your best interest?   
    Perhaps they'll decide it's in your best interest that you not be burdened with having to make decisions about government  policy.
    Perhaps they'll decide that you shouldn't have more than one child in order to spare you the expenses, or that you shouldn't procreate at all.

    See where that can all too easily lead?


     
    Nation before self.
    When that's something you choose as an individual that's fine. 
    When that is enforced by the structure of government and it's laws it's called totalitarianism, something that would have me doing very unpleasant things to those attempting to enforce that form of governance and their supporters.   
    Why? Because the power of government, any government, is exercised at the point of a gun.  Often many times removed, but it's the threat of the gun...death...that backs up any governments power to enforce it's rules. 
    You comply or they continue to escalate force until you have either complied or you are dead.  Period.
    That being the case I don't want them enforcing laws that give them the authority to have myself or anyone else as a disposable cog in the machine of state.   

    Nations exist to serve the individuals who live in them, not the other way around, and if a nation can not survive without trying to reverse those roles by making the individual a servant to the state then that nation needs to be abolished...it has stopped being healthy and turned cancerous.

    « Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 03:25:14 AM by LowKey »

    Grant

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #21 on: May 13, 2017, 08:17:31 AM »
    Regarding religion... I'm not sure how that factors into today's political climate  :shrug. I think we know more about the world now thanks to technology, but I think humans have always been this depraved.

    I was more viewing the societal decline, which in part contributes to the political.     

       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Plebian

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #22 on: May 13, 2017, 04:00:54 PM »
    I was more viewing the societal decline, which in part contributes to the political.     

     

    I think Christianity is the mythology on which modern western societies are built. All cultures and societies have an ideal individual. Which is typically shown through mythology of some form or another. Christ is a pretty good figurehead for a model civilized man. He tries to get along if possible, but will not submit if his ideals are threatened.

    Christianity once polished up through the enlightenment period is a pretty good mythological framework for a highly functioning society. You can be forgiven if you screw up, but you gotta try and do your best to live up to the ideals. IF you go too far we will punish you and maybe even take your life. So the mythology of Christianity is pretty solid to allow limits to be set for society to function well WHILE not asking for the individuals living in a messy world to be perfect. You do your best and try to stick to your ideals for morality and society.

    Again the Christian mythology western societies have established seems to be pretty solid. There may be a better method out there, but just like the democratic process. We have not found a better one yet. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    coelacanth

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    Re: A Second Amendment Article that both Enlightens and Infuriates...
    « Reply #23 on: May 14, 2017, 01:24:20 AM »
    At this point,I no longer have anything relevant to contribute to this thread.  Plebian said it all for me, and said it better than I would have in the bargain.  He's definitely firing on all twelve cylinders.  Carry on, sir.    :cool
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

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